question-circle Re: Combat range always close by default (close range effects available!)

08 Nov 2023 23:55 #109804 by Hakuron
You need to make sure that the combat ends up at close range.
The damage inflicted via OtH has no specific range per se; it is regarded to have happened at close range if you end up at close range.
(Please note that the default range is "close" if for any reason the "determine range" step is skipped.)

National Coordinator Germany
nc [dot] germany [at] magenta [dot] de

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09 Nov 2023 07:52 #109805 by Ankha

These rulings are valid.
Outside the Hourglass + Majesty + Disarm works.
Outside the Hourglass + Alpha Glint + Pulled Fangs works.

If your only strike is Catatonic Fear, you can't play Disarm, since, when the combat ends, you have inflicted 0 damage.

A question remains, though, which might lead to a slight rewording of Pulled Fangs / Disarm / .. : If the range is set to long after Outside the Hourglass is played, is the damage from OtH still considered "inflicted at close range"?
To solve this, I might change Disarm / ... to "Only usable at close range, if this vampire inflicted more damage ..."


I'm sorry for the necro from 10 years ago, but this question and especially this quote is now bothering me. There was a deck a week or so ago that won a tournament that used the Outside + Majesty + Disarm -trick, so I assume the main trick still works.

However, the wording of the Disarm -card has changed (as Pascal says in the quote) from "... more damage at close range than opponent..." to "Only usable at close range at the end of a round during which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage than the opposing vampire."

Does this now mean that Disarm works differently, and the following is no longer acceptable:
Outside the hourglass -> maneuver to long range -> Majesty -> Disarm?

It never was, because the range is known only after it the "determine range" step or because it was set.
And it's made clearer by the updated clarified cardtext of Disarm:

Name: Disarm
[Sabbat:R, SW:R, CE:PB, BH:PN, KMW:PAl, Third:R, NB2:PB1]
Cardtype: Combat
Discipline: Potence
Only usable at close range at the end of a round during which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage than the opposing vampire. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going to torpor.
[pot] Put this card on the opposing vampire and send them to torpor. The attached vampire gets -1 strength. They can burn 3 blood to burn this card. A vampire can have only one Disarm.
[POT] As above, but the attached vampire gets -2 strength.

I.e. if I want to use the trick, I need to make sure I end up at close range before playing Majesty?

You need the range to be close when you want to play Disarm.

Also, I assume this now means that the following sequence is no longer acceptable:
Outside the hourglass (2 damage) -> opponent maneuvers to long range with magnum and shoots for 2 damage -> I use Disarm to send him to torpor as my damage was close range but his was long range.

It never was.

The wording change of Disarm has considerably changed how it works with outside the hourglass.

It hasn't.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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09 Nov 2023 09:01 - 09 Nov 2023 09:03 #109807 by Dthamilaye
Thank you for the answers. From some of the answers from the threads 13 years ago I got the understanding that Outside the hourglass would be always considered close range damage, regardless of what happens in the "Determine Range" -step, but seems I understood wrong.

Immortal Grapples can still ruin the day with this one it seems :).
Last edit: 09 Nov 2023 09:03 by Dthamilaye.

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