question-circle Re: Combat range always close by default (close range effects available!)

09 Feb 2012 13:15 #22599 by Amin
Thank you for your response.

Intuitively I get it.

But the thing is the same intuition says the same rule - "If something depends on range being either close or long, then it must wait until range is determined" - should be applied to Pulled Fangs and Disarm as well. These two cards do depend on range being either close or long, don't the? But somehow - if the combat ends before range is determined - we assume the combat was at close range and apply the close range effects. Apart from VD effect...

I assume it is just behind my comprehension ability and I have to accept it humbly.

Thank you for your effort anyway :-)

Amin

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09 Feb 2012 14:58 #22605 by Surreal
I agree that you can get easily confused. Best way is just to think that VTES rules are not very coherent and card texts can be misleading.

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09 Feb 2012 15:59 #22610 by jamesatzephyr

But the thing is the same intuition says the same rule - "If something depends on range being either close or long, then it must wait until range is determined" - should be applied to Pulled Fangs and Disarm as well.


On a personal level, I'm inclined to agree that this area is somewhat unsatisfactory.

Intuitively, it seems right that Vampiric Disease shouldn't trigger before range is determined, otherwise its text is excessive. But I'm not altogether happy with the idea that (for example) damage dealt before range is 'rangeless' such that Pulled Fangs can't be played (with its current text).
The following user(s) said Thank You: echiang

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10 Feb 2012 04:06 #22680 by Juggernaut1981
Then James,
What is the logical reason NOT to have either VD work like Pulled Fangs or Pulled Fangs work like VD?

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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10 Feb 2012 05:55 #22694 by jamesatzephyr

Then James,
What is the logical reason NOT to have either VD work like Pulled Fangs or Pulled Fangs work like VD?


You know how I just posted that, personally, I found the rulings in this area 'unsatisfactory' and that I explicitly contrasted two somewhat contradictory rulings as part of doing that?

Why would you then ask me to stand on my head and provide a totally opposite post which synthesises both points into a satisfactory outcome?

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08 Nov 2023 10:57 - 08 Nov 2023 11:26 #109793 by Dthamilaye

These rulings are valid.
Outside the Hourglass + Majesty + Disarm works.
Outside the Hourglass + Alpha Glint + Pulled Fangs works.

If your only strike is Catatonic Fear, you can't play Disarm, since, when the combat ends, you have inflicted 0 damage.

A question remains, though, which might lead to a slight rewording of Pulled Fangs / Disarm / .. : If the range is set to long after Outside the Hourglass is played, is the damage from OtH still considered "inflicted at close range"?
To solve this, I might change Disarm / ... to "Only usable at close range, if this vampire inflicted more damage ..."


I'm sorry for the necro from 10 years ago, but this question and especially this quote is now bothering me. There was a deck a week or so ago that won a tournament that used the Outside + Majesty + Disarm -trick, so I assume the main trick still works.

However, the wording of the Disarm -card has changed (as Pascal says in the quote) from "... more damage at close range than opponent..." to "Only usable at close range at the end of a round during which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage than the opposing vampire."

Does this now mean that Disarm works differently, and the following is no longer acceptable:
Outside the hourglass -> maneuver to long range -> Majesty -> Disarm?

I.e. if I want to use the trick, I need to make sure I end up at close range before playing Majesty?

Also, I assume this now means that the following sequence is no longer acceptable:
Outside the hourglass (2 damage) -> opponent maneuvers to long range with magnum and shoots for 2 damage -> I use Disarm to send him to torpor as my damage was close range but his was long range.

The wording change of Disarm has considerably changed how it works with outside the hourglass.
Last edit: 08 Nov 2023 11:26 by Dthamilaye.

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