Dual Form question
04 May 2013 16:47 - 04 May 2013 16:49 #48185
by Borris
Dual Form question was created by Borris
Can a Sterile vampire with PRO play Dual Form at Superior?
My logic in favour is that Sterile refers to putting other vampires in play and Dual Form is clearly the same vampire splitting into two; thematically (and potentially in the wording of the sterile definition) it makes sense that they can play Dual Form at PRO.
There are currently 3 vampires that have PRO and are sterile:
Name; Clan; Grouping; Capacity;
Pariah Abomination 2 6
Zubeida Abomination 5 8
Sylvie Helgon Ahrimane 6 9
Sterile: Sterile vampires cannot take actions to put other vampires in play.
Dual Form:
PRO = This acting vampire's capacity is reduced by 1. Put this card in play, tapped. It becomes a non-unique vampire with the same clan, capacity and Disciplines as the acting vampire. You may move up to 2 blood from the acting vampire to this vampire. If either minion leaves the ready region, the other is burned.
Thanks.
My logic in favour is that Sterile refers to putting other vampires in play and Dual Form is clearly the same vampire splitting into two; thematically (and potentially in the wording of the sterile definition) it makes sense that they can play Dual Form at PRO.
There are currently 3 vampires that have PRO and are sterile:
Name; Clan; Grouping; Capacity;
Pariah Abomination 2 6
Zubeida Abomination 5 8
Sylvie Helgon Ahrimane 6 9
Sterile: Sterile vampires cannot take actions to put other vampires in play.
Dual Form:
PRO = This acting vampire's capacity is reduced by 1. Put this card in play, tapped. It becomes a non-unique vampire with the same clan, capacity and Disciplines as the acting vampire. You may move up to 2 blood from the acting vampire to this vampire. If either minion leaves the ready region, the other is burned.
Thanks.
Last edit: 04 May 2013 16:49 by Borris.
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04 May 2013 19:04 #48187
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Dual Form question
Dual Form at superior is an action that puts a vampire in play.
Sterile vampires can't play Dual Form at superior.
Sterile vampires can't play Dual Form at superior.
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04 May 2013 20:34 #48189
by Borris
My point was that thematically the above is wrong. Dual forming has nothing to do with sterility, unlike embracing people, hence my question. Allowing it would only effect 3 vampires currently, none of whom see serious play. Dual Form at PRO already has a cost of 2 , a permanent-1 capacity effect and a very difficult to control symbiotic burn relationship, so it is already very different from the other embrace cards (embrace, creation rites, 3rd trad progeny, becoming etc).
Replied by Borris on topic Re: Dual Form question
Dual Form at superior is an action that puts a vampire in play.
Sterile vampires can't play Dual Form at superior.
My point was that thematically the above is wrong. Dual forming has nothing to do with sterility, unlike embracing people, hence my question. Allowing it would only effect 3 vampires currently, none of whom see serious play. Dual Form at PRO already has a cost of 2 , a permanent-1 capacity effect and a very difficult to control symbiotic burn relationship, so it is already very different from the other embrace cards (embrace, creation rites, 3rd trad progeny, becoming etc).
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04 May 2013 22:19 - 04 May 2013 22:21 #48190
by Franz
There are many things that are thematically wrong in the game, from a an stray dog being able to fly a Learjet, to the capacity of some vampires conflicting with V;tM cannon (Gratiano was supposed to be the Lasombra antediluviana child, yet he is younger than Lambach that is Tzismisce's grandchild, for instance, and Sutekh is a hell lot older than Hardestadt the younger, not same age).
From the game mechanics standpoint, however, cards that have the text "put this card in play... it becomes a X capacity vampire" are considered actions to put a vampire in play and therefore can't be taken by Sterile vampires.
You could make an argument about the balance of such a rule regarding Dual Form, but I guess that would be a thread better made in the Suggestion board as opposed to the Rules Questions board, that is about the rules as they stand right now.
Replied by Franz on topic Re: Dual Form question
Dual Form at superior is an action that puts a vampire in play.
Sterile vampires can't play Dual Form at superior.
My point was that thematically the above is wrong. Dual forming has nothing to do with sterility, unlike embracing people, hence my question. Allowing it would only effect 3 vampires currently, none of whom see serious play. Dual Form at PRO already has a cost of 2 , a permanent-1 capacity effect and a very difficult to control symbiotic burn relationship, so it is already very different from the other embrace cards (embrace, creation rites, 3rd trad progeny, becoming etc).
There are many things that are thematically wrong in the game, from a an stray dog being able to fly a Learjet, to the capacity of some vampires conflicting with V;tM cannon (Gratiano was supposed to be the Lasombra antediluviana child, yet he is younger than Lambach that is Tzismisce's grandchild, for instance, and Sutekh is a hell lot older than Hardestadt the younger, not same age).
From the game mechanics standpoint, however, cards that have the text "put this card in play... it becomes a X capacity vampire" are considered actions to put a vampire in play and therefore can't be taken by Sterile vampires.
You could make an argument about the balance of such a rule regarding Dual Form, but I guess that would be a thread better made in the Suggestion board as opposed to the Rules Questions board, that is about the rules as they stand right now.
Last edit: 04 May 2013 22:21 by Franz.
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04 May 2013 23:56 #48191
by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Re: Dual Form question
Whats so wrong with underbridge stray flying a learjet? Or operating an ivorg bow? 
Its hardly the most broken thing about animalism........

Its hardly the most broken thing about animalism........
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05 May 2013 06:25 #48192
by Ohlmann
Replied by Ohlmann on topic Re: Dual Form question
It's one of the case where the rule have chosen to be simple as opposed to be intuitive. It would "make sense" that sup' dual form is not affected by sterility, but it would require an errata or convoluted sterility rule, for objectively allowing weak vampire to play a weak card. It does not seem worth it.
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