file No Block Declaration & Eagle Sight

10 Dec 2014 20:21 #68090 by Ankha

Follow up question, vaguely related.

Player A declares a bleed.
Player B declares no block.
Player A increases the bleed with Conditioning.
Player C plays Eagle's Sight to block.

Argument erupts!
Player A claims that he is able to take back the Conditioning because blocks had been declined before he played it.

Only B declined. C has said nothing in your scenario.

Player C claims that Player A has the right to play Conditioning at any time; therefore, he should ask for blocks from the AUS player explicitly first.

Sure. It's always better to ask AUS/SPI guys around the table when the action is quite important.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
10 Dec 2014 20:47 #68091 by Pascal Bertrand

Follow up question, vaguely related.

Player A declares a bleed.
Player B declares no block.
Player A increases the bleed with Conditioning.
Player C plays Eagle's Sight to block.

Argument erupts!
Player A claims that he is able to take back the Conditioning because blocks had been declined before he played it.

Player C claims that Player A has the right to play Conditioning at any time; therefore, he should ask for blocks from the AUS player explicitly first.

Who is right?

A and C are incorrect.

When B passes on declaring block attempts, impulse goes to B's prey.
When all players have passed on declaring block attempts, or when one has declared a block attempt, impulse goes back to A, who can then play Conditioning.

The correct way to play this is:
B: "No blocks."
A: "C, do you declare a blcok attempt?"

And then, problem doesn't happen.
If C passes, A can play Conditioning (after all have passed), and C can't play Eagle's Sight after that (because he declined to declare block attempts).
The following user(s) said Thank You: Dorrinal

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2014 11:06 - 11 Dec 2014 11:21 #68106 by jamesatzephyr

Follow up question, vaguely related.

Player A declares a bleed.
Player B declares no block.
Player A increases the bleed with Conditioning.
Player C plays Eagle's Sight to block.

Argument erupts!
Player A claims that he is able to take back the Conditioning because blocks had been declined before he played it.

Only B declined. C has said nothing in your scenario.


However, that silence might be taken to be a declaration of "no blocks", just as saying nothing for a sufficient period of time may be taken to indicate that you're not playing Direct Intervention, or have no votes to cast in a referendum, or that another player isn't going to use Heidelberg so you can move on to your next action etc.

[LSJ 20100726] - in a discussion about Eagle's Sight

Note that asking for "Any blocks?" and waiting to observe a period of
attentive silence from B, C, D, and E is often sufficient for B (who
will likely be vocal about "no block") and C, D, and E to confirm
their decisions not to block.

That is, C can't silently forego xeir impulse in the hopes of drawing
out the boost before blocking.


If worried about such things, it is better to be explicit - but in the real world, players are often not explicit about pass of the impulse.
Last edit: 11 Dec 2014 11:21 by jamesatzephyr.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2014 12:09 #68109 by Timo
So it means that waiting "some" second between asking for block and plating conditioning is a valid way to have the block declined by everybody at the table ?

And so effectively denying the rollback asked by an :AUS: player ? Or is it considered being a jerk ? :D

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2014 13:02 - 11 Dec 2014 13:04 #68112 by jamesatzephyr

So it means that waiting "some" second between asking for block and plating conditioning is a valid way to have the block declined by everybody at the table ?

And so effectively denying the rollback asked by an :AUS: player ? Or is it considered being a jerk ? :D


The jerkiness can go either way.

- As a non-acting player, if someone asks for blocks and you want to block, don't be a jerk about it.
- As an acting player, don't rush through your action modifiers and say "But I left 0.7 picoseconds for your block declaration."



Similarly:
- if I play Govern the Unaligned, please interject as soon as you can if you're thinking about playing Direct Intervention, because you should be making that decision without knowing that I go on to play Seduction as the action is announced
- if you play Govern the Unaligned, please don't slam down Seduction and use that as justification to deny me the chance to play Direct Intervention.
Last edit: 11 Dec 2014 13:04 by jamesatzephyr.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Lönkka, Asnek

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
11 Dec 2014 13:17 #68113 by Ankha

Only B declined. C has said nothing in your scenario.


However, that silence might be taken to be a declaration of "no blocks", just as saying nothing for a sufficient period of time may be taken to indicate that you're not playing Direct Intervention, or have no votes to cast in a referendum, or that another player isn't going to use Heidelberg so you can move on to your next action etc.

My original answer contained something like this, but it's wrong to assume that saying nothing means you don't interact. It's usually the reverse in fact: people thinking about interacting are usually silent at the beginning.

Classical case is playing a DI on an action. Player A announces some critical unexpected action. Player B has a DI, but he must think whether or not he's going to DI that, or maybe DI the stealth... People tend to concentrate in that case and be silent. He could say "wait! I may DI" but then he would give away the information he has a DI before thinking whether it's pertinent or not to DI in the end.

Or in the OP scenario, if A bleeds B and B has already begun to remove his pool, C could still be thinking about playing the Eagle's Sight or not.

C can't be denied the opportunity to interact by players playing too fast. But people can't react neither 5 minutes later saying "hey, I may DI that card". Add in some cases where people are already negociating the terms of a political action when the vote is played and player C leave them talk to know where the game is heading before DIing or not. After all, it's not clear whether they're still in the "as played" window or not.

So it's entirely up to the judge to say if A played too fast or not, and if C has still the opportunity to interact, and whether the situation should be rollbacked or not.

With the OP scenario, we could imagine that C "wakes up" after B has burned his pool and A begun a new action, but without playing fast. Judge could decide C had plenty of time to react but didn't.

Or A and B played fast, someone talked about playing maybe a Major Boon, etc. then B starts burning his pool, and C was about to play an Eagle's Sight. Judge could decide that C can play his Eagle's Sight, even after A played the Conditioning.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
The following user(s) said Thank You: Rémi

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.092 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum