file Additional strikes, compounded card effects

13 Feb 2015 09:56 - 13 Feb 2015 14:37 #69208 by 2wayspeaker
I'm hazy on how and when to play additional strikes.
For these examples assume the opponent has infinite health and doesn't go to torpor halfway.

FIRST QUESTION

[LSJ 20001206]

You can only play cards that give you additional strikes (should they count over the limit or not) when you have no more additional strike to declare / resolve.

That is: you can't play Blur + Hell-for-Leather, and then declare your first additional.
It has to be: Blur. Declare and resolve first add. Declare and resolve second add. Possibility to play Hell-for-Leather only comes then.

Additional strikes not counting against the limit are regular additional strikes. They just don't count against the 1-card awarding additional strikes per round maximum.

With Acrobatics, you can't play Hell-for-Leather before resolving the additional strike Acrobatics granted.


I interpret this as: I cannot play Blur+Blur, but I can play Blur, watch both strikes resolve and play another Blur if the opponent is still ready.
Edit: So I can never play blur twice in a round of combat. But I can play Blur and an additional strike that doesnt count against the 1-card per round limit. If I do so I wait till the first additionals resolve and for the opposing minion to still be ready.

Is this correct?


SECOND QUESTION

But how does this work with permanents(minion text, equipment) and ammo cards.

Lets say I have Alexis Sorokin equipped with an AK-47, using Blur and Caseless rounds. I figure I can play this because only Blur has an outright additional strike while both the AK-47 and Caseless Rounds are conditional and possibly yield zero additional strikes.


Scenario:
Strike 1 (regular): I use Alexis to dodge the first strike of my opponent.
Next I play blur to gain 2 additional strikes.
Strike 2 (blur 1/2): I choose to strike with the AK-47 and during this strike and before resolution I play Caseless Rounds.
Strike 3 (caseless): I strike with the caseless rounds in the AK-47.
Strike 4 (AK-47 2nd)
Strike 5 (blur 2/2): AK-47

1 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 5 strikes

Is this a correct play? Why/Why not?

THIRD QUESTION
Using a combination of blur, alexis, caseless and AK, how can I deal the most damage whilst still dodging on the first strike?

FOURTH QUESTION
How can I deal the most damage with these four cards.

CARDS LIST:

Alexis Sorokin
[for]
[CEL]
[CHI]
[OBF]
[PRO]
[Ravnos] Ravnos
Capacity: 8
Group: 4
Independent. Red List: Once each combat, Alexis may dodge as a strike. She may steal an equipment card as a (D) action. She gets +1 bleed when bleeding a Methuselah who controls a ready Toreador.

Blur
[Combat] Combat
[Celerity] Celerity
[1 Blood]
[cel] Additional strike.
[CEL] Two additional strikes.

Caseless Rounds
[Combat] Combat
[1 Pool]
Ammo.
Only usable before resolution of a gun's strike. For the remainder of combat, once each round when the bearer strikes with this gun, the bearer gets an optional additional strike, only usable to strike with this gun. No more than one ammo card can be used on a gun each combat.

AK-47
[Equipment] Equipment
[5 Pool]
Weapon. Gun.
2R damage each strike, with an optional maneuver each combat. When bearer strikes with this gun, he or she gets an optional additional strike this round, only usable to strike with this gun.

Last edit: 13 Feb 2015 14:37 by 2wayspeaker. Reason: Figured I could only use caseless rounds and AK-47 once per round

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13 Feb 2015 15:04 - 13 Feb 2015 15:11 #69216 by jamesatzephyr

Edit: So I can never play blur twice in a round of combat. But I can play Blur and an additional strike that doesnt count against the 1-card per round limit. If I do so I wait till the first additionals resolve and for the opposing minion to still be ready.

Is this correct?


Yes. Any time you've finished a strike resolution phase and don't have any pending additional strikes, you can declare a source of additional strikes. Then you use those up and can declare more if you can sneak under the 'one per round' limit.

Note that you can't do something like let your opponent play Blur (while you do nothing), then play your own Blur after his two additionals have resolved: [RTR 2013-04-22]

But how does this work with permanents(minion text, equipment) and ammo cards.

Lets say I have Alexis Sorokin equipped with an AK-47, using Blur and Caseless rounds. I figure I can play this because only Blur has an outright additional strike while both the AK-47 and Caseless Rounds are conditional and possibly yield zero additional strikes.


Once you get to the end of your first strike - whether the Dodge, the AK-47, hands, or whatever - you can choose to gain additional strike, either from sources in play, or from playing cards.

Scenario:
Strike 1 (regular): I use Alexis to dodge the first strike of my opponent.
Next I play blur to gain 2 additional strikes.
Strike 2 (blur 1/2): I choose to strike with the AK-47 and during this strike and before resolution I play Caseless Rounds.
Strike 3 (caseless): I strike with the caseless rounds in the AK-47.
Strike 4 (AK-47 2nd)
Strike 5 (blur 2/2): AK-47


Blur is a normal source of additional strikes. It counts against the one per round limit. So is AK-47. So is Caseless Rounds. Pick one source of additional strikes, as per 6.4.3:
A minion cannot use more than one card or effect to gain additional strikes per round of combat.

You need cardtext such as is found on Quickness or Jacko to evade the one source per round limit.
Quickness: As above, but this additional strike card does not count against this vampire's additional strike effect limit for this round.

Jacko: Jacko gets an optional additional strike during the first round of combat. This does not count against his additional strike effect limit for that round.

Using a combination of blur, alexis, caseless and AK, how can I deal the most damage whilst still dodging on the first strike?


If you Dodge on the first strike, you can Blur for two additionals. You then can't use AK's optional additional strike or Caseless Rounds' optional additional strike (making it fairly useless to play Caseless, except for cycling - though paying a pool to cycle is a lot).

How can I deal the most damage with these four cards.


Strike with the AK. Blur for two additionals. Strike with the AK twice more, for three AK strikes total.
Last edit: 13 Feb 2015 15:11 by jamesatzephyr.
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13 Feb 2015 15:18 #69218 by ReverendRevolver
Answer to question 4:
Change them to different cards.

Foldable machine gun+mass reality+manstopper rounds/whatever. And or trap.

And target vitals. Basically, you need to decide upon where yoir additionals are coming from, and keep to one soirce. Celerity guns with 44s is most reliable, but with proper setup and defense, its hard to argue with mass reality and a bunch of dudes with foldable machine guns and fortitude. 6 damage a round is hot. Keeping mass reality in play takes blocking. Ive used allies and mata hari, with decent luck.

But ive built a billion celerity guns decks that say 44, pursuit, blur, psyche, sideslip, concealed, and taste is one hell of a reliable plan. Add second trad, and you arent going to find a more reliable way to be in combat shooting for a bunch.
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