file Kaymakli Nightmares

05 Nov 2021 13:18 #103796 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Kaymakli Nightmares

Poor use of the word "any" in Kaymakli nightmares text. Should say "all".



The reason to use "any" instead of "all" is that the fact of there being crypt cards in a Methuselah's uncontrolled region and there being blood counters or cards on a crypt card is not known nor a certainty.
"any" is being correctly used as per the English language and depending on the context, it may mean just one, or it could mean more than one i.e. some or all.

"any" and "all" are at times interchangeable and in the case of the card text of Kaymakli Nightmares it wouldn´t change the meaning.


Be that as it may, it does create confusion considering that cards like Great Symposium at times used the wording "any" in the sense of "any one". Even though it is permitted, one should strive to keep words and sentences with a unique meaning in cardgames.


Kaymakli Nightmares is correctly written and doesn't become wrong because Great Symposium was written "incorrectly"/imprecise at one point....the ruling given for Great Symposium, at the time when it was not optimally written, saying that "any" means "one" doesn´t mean that that is correct English as there was nothing indicating the quantity being limited to one...more confusion arose by the combination of "any" and by the choice of using "them" which is a pronoun that can be both plural and singular ....it has been corrected since (aligning it to the original wording to explicitly mean one using the word "a" instead of "any" ) so no issue any longer on the official card text.

Great Symposium:

Current text: Correct
Only one Great Symposium can be played in a game.
Search your crypt for {a} Kiasyd (shuffle afterward), reveal them, and move them to your uncontrolled region, then distribute 3 blood from the blood bank among one or more Kiasyd in your uncontrolled region.


HttB Reprint Bundle text: Incorrect
Only one Great Symposium can be played in a game.
Search your crypt for any Kiasyd :kias: (shuffle afterward), reveal them, and move them to your uncontrolled region, then distribute 3 blood from the blood bank among one or more Kiasyd in your uncontrolled region.


HttB text: Correct
Search your crypt for a Kiasyd and put that vampire in your uncontrolled region. Then distribute 3 blood from the bank among one or more Kiasyds in your uncontrolled region. Only one Great Symposium can be played in a game.





"any" is being correctly used as per the English language and depending on the context, it may mean just one, or it could mean more than one i.e. some or all.


Which is exactly why it shouldn't be used here. It introduces uncertainty, while ALL minions in the uncontrolled region are affected by the card.


The context makes it clear, there is no uncertainty, and "any" should be used if following proper English grammar. I agree that the language could be simplified by deviating from strictly following the grammar rules but that wouldn't make sense...then it would be better to come up with an alternative wording all together.

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18 Nov 2021 08:48 - 18 Nov 2021 08:49 #103922 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Kaymakli Nightmares


The reason to use "any" instead of "all" is that the fact of there being crypt cards in a Methuselah's uncontrolled region and there being blood counters or cards on a crypt card is not known nor a certainty.
"any" is being correctly used as per the English language and depending on the context, it may mean just one, or it could mean more than one i.e. some or all.

Which is precisely why it should use the word "all", since the amount of crypt cards that Kaymakli nightmares affects is known: It is all of them.

Kaymakli Nightmares is correctly written and doesn't become wrong because Great Symposium was written "incorrectly"/imprecise at one point....the ruling given for Great Symposium, at the time when it was not optimally written, saying that "any" means "one" doesn´t mean that that is correct English as there was nothing indicating the quantity being limited to one...more confusion arose by the combination of "any" and by the choice of using "them" which is a pronoun that can be both plural and singular ....it has been corrected since (aligning it to the original wording to explicitly mean one using the word "a" instead of "any" ) so no issue any longer on the official card text.


You are missing the point. The point is NOT that "any" would limit the amount to "one".
The point is that "any" can mean "any amount". It can be one or more. Because of this the text introduces uncertainty which is what we want to avoid in card texts. We want the cardtext to be as explicit as possible to avoid players misinterpreting it.

The text doesn't become "correct english" just because you say so.

Current text: Correct
Only one Great Symposium can be played in a game.
Search your crypt for {a} Kiasyd (shuffle afterward), reveal them, and move them to your uncontrolled region, then distribute 3 blood from the blood bank among one or more Kiasyd in your uncontrolled region.

The context makes it clear, there is no uncertainty, and "any" should be used if following proper English grammar. I agree that the language could be simplified by deviating from strictly following the grammar rules but that wouldn't make sense...then it would be better to come up with an alternative wording all together.


I disagree. There is uncertainty.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 18 Nov 2021 08:49 by Bloodartist.

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18 Nov 2021 09:02 #103924 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Kaymakli Nightmares
You are being funny now....it isn´t correct English because I say so, it is correct because it follows the grammar rules of the language which dictate how and what should be used. Feel free to look it up. You are entitled to your opinion of thinking that it could be made easier to read and/or more explicit but none of those change the fact that written language-wise it conveys the intent correctly within the framework of what is considered correct English grammar. Finally, I´m completely ok with agreeing to the fact that we disagree.

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