Reactions and action modifiers timing
23 Aug 2022 05:50 #106082
by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Reactions and action modifiers timing
An action exists until it ends. There is a timing window between "action resolution" and "action end" that the cards which are "only playable after resolution" uses.
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23 Aug 2022 08:02 #106092
by lip
Replied by lip on topic Reactions and action modifiers timing
Yes, first it resolves, then it ends. It's not illogical to me that stuff can happen in between.
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23 Aug 2022 08:11 #106095
by Bloodartist
It is to me. Stuff has ended after it has resolved. Otherwise there is still something left to resolve.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Reactions and action modifiers timing
Yes, first it resolves, then it ends. It's not illogical to me that stuff can happen in between.
It is to me. Stuff has ended after it has resolved. Otherwise there is still something left to resolve.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
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23 Aug 2022 09:01 #106098
by lip
Replied by lip on topic Reactions and action modifiers timing
I see where you're coming from, but for me resolving the effects of an action does not necessarily means it is ended. Especially if there are other effects (not from the action itself) yet to be resolved themselves. After all, the course of the action is larger than just its resolution (no-one argues the action starts before its resolution, to me symmetry here at then end of it feels natural: it ends after its resolution. If there's space before, why not space after).
Anyway, this sounds like a vocabulary/cognition/personal internal imaging issue, so I'm not sure it makes sense to argue about it - different people, different perceptions of abstract concepts.
Anyway, this sounds like a vocabulary/cognition/personal internal imaging issue, so I'm not sure it makes sense to argue about it - different people, different perceptions of abstract concepts.
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23 Aug 2022 19:22 - 23 Aug 2022 19:23 #106113
by Bloodartist
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Reactions and action modifiers timing
Note that I have always been against using phrases such as "before X" or "after X" in cardtext. Things should happen at exact moment X and not before or after which is vague.
A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing
Last edit: 23 Aug 2022 19:23 by Bloodartist.
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24 Aug 2022 08:33 - 24 Aug 2022 08:46 #106116
by Ankha
"before" and "after" are defining that exact moment. They are not vague as they indicate the exact moment compared to X.
There are three cases:
1) two effects should happen at the same time, in which case you have to order them
2) effect A should happen before effect B
3) effect A should happen after effect B
Case 1) the effects Vessel and Anarch Revolt have the same timing window "during your unlock phase". So you can order them.
Case 2) When a minion is blocked, there is normally a combat. But some cards have effects that happen before (for instance, Change of Target or Power of One)
Case 3) and some cards have effects that happen after (Cats' Guidance).
In cases 2 and 3, "when X is blocked" would be ambiguous because you wouldn't know if the effects happens before or after. So your "exact moment X" is defined using before/after.
Replied by Ankha on topic Reactions and action modifiers timing
Note that I have always been against using phrases such as "before X" or "after X" in cardtext. Things should happen at exact moment X and not before or after which is vague.
"before" and "after" are defining that exact moment. They are not vague as they indicate the exact moment compared to X.
There are three cases:
1) two effects should happen at the same time, in which case you have to order them
2) effect A should happen before effect B
3) effect A should happen after effect B
Case 1) the effects Vessel and Anarch Revolt have the same timing window "during your unlock phase". So you can order them.
Case 2) When a minion is blocked, there is normally a combat. But some cards have effects that happen before (for instance, Change of Target or Power of One)
Case 3) and some cards have effects that happen after (Cats' Guidance).
In cases 2 and 3, "when X is blocked" would be ambiguous because you wouldn't know if the effects happens before or after. So your "exact moment X" is defined using before/after.
Cards
Change of Target: Only usable if this minion is blocked, before block resolution. Unlock this minion, and the action ends (unsuccessfully). This minion cannot perform the same action again this turn.
Power of One: [obt] Only usable if this Anarch is blocked, before block resolution. The blocking minion burns 2 blood or life.
Cats' Guidance: [ani] Only usable by a locked vampire who has blocked, after block resolution. Unlock this vampire.
Power of One: [obt] Only usable if this Anarch is blocked, before block resolution. The blocking minion burns 2 blood or life.
Cats' Guidance: [ani] Only usable by a locked vampire who has blocked, after block resolution. Unlock this vampire.
Last edit: 24 Aug 2022 08:46 by Ankha.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Hakuron
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