Oubliette and similar
01 Feb 2023 20:44 #107303
by Oracle.kid
Oubliette and similar was created by Oracle.kid
Since there was a discussion in the discord about Oubliette, I looked up some of the mentioned rules and rulings. Now I am more confused than before..
The rulebook states explicitly
So for me, as a newbie, Oubliette should resolve logically as follows:
However, in the discord, the conclusion was that the damage of the superior could be dodged since it was a damaging strike. And in some rulings I found is stated that the damage can be modified, e.g. by Target Vitals. Both seems contradictory to the explicit statements in the rulebook
So could maybe someone help me by clarifying:
Thanks in advance!
The rulebook states explicitly
Combat Ends: This effect ends combat immediately. This type of strike is always the first to resolve, even before a strike done with first strike (see First Strike), and it ends combat before other strikes or other strike resolution effects are resolved
So for me, as a newbie, Oubliette should resolve logically as follows:
- Strike: Combat ends
- opponent's Dodge is not resolved
- Combat Ends
- Oubliette's damage is handeled after combat. No other strike resolution effects can modify it
However, in the discord, the conclusion was that the damage of the superior could be dodged since it was a damaging strike. And in some rulings I found is stated that the damage can be modified, e.g. by Target Vitals. Both seems contradictory to the explicit statements in the rulebook
So could maybe someone help me by clarifying:
- How does a Dodge resolve while Oubliette in superior is still a Strike:Combat Ends?
- If Target Vitals are no "other strike resolution effects", what are examples for these?
Thanks in advance!
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01 Feb 2023 22:14 #107305
by Oracle.kid
Replied by Oracle.kid on topic Oubliette and similar
Thanks
What I don't understand here: How can the dodge resolve if the rulebook says it doesn't - at least in the way I read it.
Is it some kind of oral tradition passed down (as vtes seems to have once in a while)? Or are perhaps my english skills a limitation for understanding the rulebook proper?
The second explanation makes some sense for me. Carrion Crows is an example I know well. Is Target Vitals not a "other strike resolution effect" in the sense of the rulebook?
Btw: I found Catatonic Fear can be modified by Target Vitals, Oubliette cannot, because it doesn't say "damage" in the card text.
So could maybe someone help me by clarifying:
- How does a Dodge resolve while Oubliette in superior is still a Strike:Combat Ends?
Dodge always resolves regardless of the opponents strike being a Strike: Combat Ends, a strike with First Strike or otherwise....only exceptional cases are undodgeable strikes (e.g. Earthshock) which means the dodge still resolves but doesn´t provide protection against the undodgeable strike.
What I don't understand here: How can the dodge resolve if the rulebook says it doesn't - at least in the way I read it.
Combat Ends: This effect ends combat immediately. This type of strike is always the first to resolve, (...) and it ends combat before other strikes (...) are resolved.
Is it some kind of oral tradition passed down (as vtes seems to have once in a while)?
Or are perhaps my english skills a limitation for understanding the rulebook proper?The second explanation makes some sense for me. Carrion Crows is an example I know well. Is Target Vitals not a "other strike resolution effect" in the sense of the rulebook?
Btw: I found Catatonic Fear can be modified by Target Vitals, Oubliette cannot, because it doesn't say "damage" in the card text.
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02 Feb 2023 07:14 #107308
by inm8
In my opinion all cards/effect go through a resolution to apply their effect or by setting up a delayed effect....whether Dodge "resolves" or not is moot for that the effect is applied when played protecting the minion and its equipments from offensive effects.
"Burn blood" effects are not the same as "damaging" effects where the vampire burns blood to mend the damage at the damage resolution step.
Target Vitals care about damage not blood burning so that is the reason for it being applicable to Catatonic Fear and not Oubliette.
Target Vitals is not a "strike effect", it is an effect that requires a strike to be played for it to be playable and modifies any damage that is caused by that strike as a delayed effect with a condition to do so regardless if it is done in the combat or outside of it.
Replied by inm8 on topic Oubliette and similar
There doesn´t seem to be any issues with your English skills, The rulebook isn´t being clear about the way Dodge work and should be improved. Dodge doesn´t follow the order of priority of strikes (1st Combat Ends, 2nd First Strike and 3rd Normal strikes) as it is always applied. The rule that you are quoting is adding to the confusion.Thanks
What I don't understand here: How can the dodge resolve if the rulebook says it doesn't - at least in the way I read it.
Combat Ends: This effect ends combat immediately. This type of strike is always the first to resolve, (...) and it ends combat before other strikes (...) are resolved.
Is it some kind of oral tradition passed down (as vtes seems to have once in a while)?
In my opinion all cards/effect go through a resolution to apply their effect or by setting up a delayed effect....whether Dodge "resolves" or not is moot for that the effect is applied when played protecting the minion and its equipments from offensive effects.
The second explanation makes some sense for me. Carrion Crows is an example I know well. Is Target Vitals not a "other strike resolution effect" in the sense of the rulebook?
Btw: I found Catatonic Fear can be modified by Target Vitals, Oubliette cannot, because it doesn't say "damage" in the card text.
"Burn blood" effects are not the same as "damaging" effects where the vampire burns blood to mend the damage at the damage resolution step.
Target Vitals care about damage not blood burning so that is the reason for it being applicable to Catatonic Fear and not Oubliette.
Target Vitals is not a "strike effect", it is an effect that requires a strike to be played for it to be playable and modifies any damage that is caused by that strike as a delayed effect with a condition to do so regardless if it is done in the combat or outside of it.
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