Deep Song and Powerbase: Savannah

I am finding no rule that says there can't be two minions with a designation of acting. I mean, I think you're right, but it's not watertight without that. I'm looking for a rule that says setting one minion to acting means that you are setting all others to not-acting.

Killiam wrote:

I am finding no rule that says there can't be two minions with a designation of acting. I mean, I think you're right, but it's not watertight without that. I'm looking for a rule that says setting one minion to acting means that you are setting all others to not-acting.

No, this is not how rules work. Please find the rule that says there can be two acting minions at the same time.

Here follows a reductio ad absurdum.
Feel free to try mentally pinpoint "who" gets the opportunity to play a card first in the world where there are two acting minions at the same time when the rules state the following;

"The acting minion always gets first opportunity to use cards or effects before the opposing minion at every stage of combat."

A Coin toss? The position of the Moon in relation to the players zodiac? A Popular vote by local city council held at the next midnight in the presence of local VEKN qualified judge overseeing the proceedings? If any of those sound ridiculous, there are no rules saying they could not be used in such case to determine who gets the first opportunity...

And that's why we only apply things that are in the rules or in the cards.

In this case, by rules, acting methuselah has the acting minion, but as golden rule for cards allows cards to override rules, Deep Songs card text; "The target vampire is considered the acting minion during that combat." overrides the normal rules. If the design intent was to have multiple acting minons, card wording would indicate that, however as it stands it does not. And until there is such card text, there are no multiple acting minions at the same time.

You may be missing the linguistic distinction between "the acting minion" and "an acting minion." Deep Song uses the former while PB Savannah uses the latter. There are multiple ways to become "an" acting minion. The typical way (and the only way described in the rulebook) is to declare an action. Being the target of Deep Song is another way.

The answer to the question of who plays first is "THE acting minion," who, for the duration of combat, is the target of the Deep Song. It is not difficult to pinpoint why, per the rulebook and Deep Song's use of the definite article.

To be clear, I still think you and Karl are right, and my concern (as it usually is) arises because I have found multiple plausible mechanical interpretations of wording, and I want to have solid ground against someone who argues the other side. So here's my devil's advocacy.

To illustrate this distinction, replace "acting minion" with "mayor," "that combat" with "New York," and "Powerbase: Savannah" with "Morty McMayorMurder, the Assassin Who Only Kills Mayors." You can be the mayor of New York, newly elected. There can be visiting mayors from other cities at the time. You are "the mayor," while the visiting mayor of Chicago is "a mayor." You are the policy maker here and now, he is not. The only privilege the visiting mayor gets in New York is the privilege of being called "a mayor" (i.e. being included in the set of all mayors), but that does mean that he cannot be targeted by Morty McMayorMurder.

I understand that the rules make no provisions for multiple ways of becoming an acting minion during the course of a single action. The cards, however, do. When cards create new, possibly rule-violating provisions, the cards take precedence (by rule), and we are left to interpret implications through linguistic means until there is a ruling. That, my esteemed colleague, is precisely how rules work.

So yes, explicit card text (use of definite article on one card, indefinite on another) could reasonably be read to imply that there can be multiple minions with the designation of "acting." I would like to see this potential loophole closed. Any of the following would close it:
1. Card errata to changing "an acting minion" to "the acting minion."
2. A ruling that there is no difference between the two terms, and anywhere we read "an acting minion" we can consider it interchangeable with "the acting minion," implying that there can be only one at a time.
3. An explicit ruling, here or in the rulebook, stating that becoming "the acting minion" means that no other minions are considered acting.

If I know Vincent (and if he decides to weigh in here), I'm guessing he'd go with option 2.

Thanks for reading this far! You are awesome. Happy hunting!

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Answer to 1 is no.
If your deep song successfully resolved, then opposing minion is the acting minion during combat and not yours. Since PB: Savannah is used in pre-range step, combat is already underway and they are the acting minion.

Answer to 2 is yes.
Same reason, swapped around.

ps. Only one minion can be the acting minion in combat, no matter how unintuitive it can be to determine who that is. (cards that end combat and start a new one as an example, hidden lurker etc.) The acting minion is needed to determine who plays their cards first. Thats why we can't have both acting at the same time.