file Vampires contestint titles

11 Sep 2023 09:44 - 11 Sep 2023 10:54 #109282 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Vampires contestint titles
Two scenario for my clarity.

1) Player A successfully plays and passes Brujah Justicar on player B’s Theo Bell while player C has Jaroslav Pascek in play leading to the contest of the Brujah Justicar title.
During the unlock phase of player B they choose to yield the Brujah Justicar title.

Does player C during their unlock phase have to burn a blood to contest the title and only get it back during their next unlock phase?


2) Player A successfully plays and passes Brujah Justicar on player B’s Theo Bell while player C has Jaroslav Pascek in play leading to the contest of the Brujah Justicar title.
During the unlock phase of player B they choose to contest the Brujah Justicar title and pays one blood.
During the unlock phase of player C they choose to contest the Brujah Justicar title and pays one blood.
During the unlock phase of player B they choose to yield the Brujah Justicar title.

Does player C during their unlock phase have to burn again a blood to contest the title and only get it back during their next unlock phase?

Brujah Justicar


Theo Bell


Jaroslav Pascek
Last edit: 11 Sep 2023 10:54 by inm8.

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11 Sep 2023 12:22 - 11 Sep 2023 12:27 #109283 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Vampires contestint titles

Two scenario for my clarity.

1) Player A successfully plays and passes Brujah Justicar on player B’s Theo Bell while player C has Jaroslav Pascek in play leading to the contest of the Brujah Justicar title.
During the unlock phase of player B they choose to yield the Brujah Justicar title.

Does player C during their unlock phase have to burn a blood to contest the title and only get it back during their next unlock phase?

B yields => C will get the title back during C' next unlock phase. So C doesn't have to burn blood or yield.

2) Player A successfully plays and passes Brujah Justicar on player B’s Theo Bell while player C has Jaroslav Pascek in play leading to the contest of the Brujah Justicar title.
During the unlock phase of player B they choose to contest the Brujah Justicar title and pays one blood.
During the unlock phase of player C they choose to contest the Brujah Justicar title and pays one blood.
During the unlock phase of player B they choose to yield the Brujah Justicar title.


Does player C during their unlock phase have to burn again a blood to contest the title and only get it back during their next unlock phase?

No, it ends the same way as the previous scenario. You've just added a full turn of contest.

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Last edit: 11 Sep 2023 12:27 by Ankha.

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11 Sep 2023 13:51 #109284 by alf
Replied by alf on topic Vampires contestint titles
As stated before: That's not exactly how the usual ordering in the untap phase happens and this totally seems an artificial layer of complexity.
Why is the contest happening parallel and not sequenced?
What's the reasoning? (besides the rules currently being written in a clumsy way ...)

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11 Sep 2023 15:20 - 11 Sep 2023 15:23 #109285 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Vampires contestint titles

As stated before: That's not exactly how the usual ordering in the untap phase happens and this totally seems an artificial layer of complexity.
Why is the contest happening parallel and not sequenced?
What's the reasoning? (besides the rules currently being written in a clumsy way ...)

It doesn't happen in parallel. You choose the order in which vampires pay or yield (which has little incidence, agreed).
The thing is that the contest always last until the next unlock phase, even if there's only one contender left.

Vampires A and B, controlled by the same Methuselah, contest a title.
A chooses to yield.
B, the only contender left, has to choose to pay or yield, because his title is still contested, even though he's the last contender.

There are some cases where both A and B would have to yield (no blood left for instance).
And if B pays, he won't be able to use his title until "the contest is ended, during the next unlock phase" (rulebook, paraphrased)

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Last edit: 11 Sep 2023 15:23 by Ankha.
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11 Sep 2023 21:23 #109290 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Vampires contestint titles
The key being that the rules say “your” instead of “their” where the latter could be argued to make more sense for titles as the vampires are the holders of them …but the rules are the rules

If all other vampires contesting a title with your vampire have yielded the contest, then your vampire acquires the title during your next unlock phase, ending the contest.

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12 Sep 2023 07:47 #109291 by alf
Replied by alf on topic Vampires contestint titles

There are some cases where both A and B would have to yield (no blood left for instance).
And if B pays, he won't be able to use his title until "the contest is ended, during the next unlock phase" (rulebook, paraphrased)


All good and dandy, as I understand the "rule".

I don't understand the "reasoning" behind this rule to be written as it is.
So why is there a delay until the next untap phase?
Historically? Intentionally?

I get it, that it's the next untap phase if the contest was between two different controllers.
But whatever. Otherwise it feels just clumsy to me.

But fine. Will stop beating a dead horse.

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