file Declining blocks impulse, Conditioning and Eagle's Sight

26 Aug 2023 09:04 #109171 by inm8


- Player A bleeds
- Player B, their prey, declines to block
{ A should have asked other players for blocks, too, but he didn't and C has not declared he's not blocking }
- Player A plays a Conditioning
- Player C plays ES.


The above is not entirely correct (hopefully this is correct and explains a lot of things)


- Player A bleeds, A then passes and impulse goes to prey B
- Player B declines to block, impulse goes to C (a minion declining to block doesn´t reset impulse to the acting)
- Player C plays Eagle´s Sight and attempts to block, impulse goes back to A
- Player A plays stealth and then passes impulse to B
- Player B passes and impulse goes to C (B cannot deflect the bleed because blocks are not yet declined "table state")
- Player C passes and impulse goes to D
- Player D passes and impulse goes to E
- Player E passes and block attempt is failed, the impulse goes back to A
- Player A passes and impulse goes to B (B has declined to block already and cannot choose to do so again)
- Player B passes impulse goes to C
- Player C passes and impulse goes to D (by passing on the opportunity to trigger effects or attempting to block it is considered to be declining to block)
- Player D declines to block and impulse goes to E
- Player E declines to block and impulse goes back to A (the fact that the entire table has declined to block is an impulse resetting event)
- Player A plays bleed modifier and passes impulse to B
- Player B plays Deflection changing the target of the bleed to C and impulse goes back to A (B could have played bleed reduction reaction instead)
- Player A passes and impulse goes to C
- Player C declines to block and impulse continues around the table where all players decline to block (C could have chosen to attempt to block as the choice to decline to block when B was the target is reset, block determination is reset if the target for the bleed is changed)
- Player A gets the impulse back as all have declined to block and chooses not to play any more effects and passes, impulse goes around the table with all players passing.
- Player A gets the impulse back, the bleed action is successful as it isn't blocked and the effect resolves resulting in C burning pool for the bleed (Spying Mission could have been played here before the resolution of the effect to modify it. After effect resolution there is an opportunity for eg Freak Drive etc.)

After all, Conditioning doesn't say "only usable after all blocks have been declined", it can be played even as the action is announced.


Only cards with explicit text (e.g. "when the action is announced") are played in the "as announced" window and as soon as another card that isn´t played as announced the "as announced" window is closed and no more as announced cards can be played.

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26 Aug 2023 09:51 #109172 by Joscha
You should always ask the AUS player, wether he likes to block, before going on. Then you should be safe.

Baron of Frankfurt

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27 Aug 2023 07:24 #109177 by KoRneeshon

(...)
The above is not entirely correct (hopefully this is correct and explains a lot of things)
(...)


Would really like Ankha to confirm this, but I think you're right, due to sequencing rules.

After all, Conditioning doesn't say "only usable after all blocks have been declined", it can be played even as the action is announced.


Only cards with explicit text (e.g. "when the action is announced") are played in the "as announced" window and as soon as another card that isn´t played as announced the "as announced" window is closed and no more as announced cards can be played.


So I cannot play GtU and (respecting DI etc.) play Conditioning immediately?
The same sequencing rule say:
At every stage, the acting Methuselah always has the opportunity to play the next card or effect. So after playing one effect, they may play another and another.
I see no reason why Condition couldn't be played in "as the action is announced" window.

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27 Aug 2023 08:40 #109179 by inm8

Only cards with explicit text (e.g. "when the action is announced") are played in the "as announced" window and as soon as another card that isn´t played as announced the "as announced" window is closed and no more as announced cards can be played.


So I cannot play GtU and (respecting DI etc.) play Conditioning immediately?
The same sequencing rule say:
At every stage, the acting Methuselah always has the opportunity to play the next card or effect. So after playing one effect, they may play another and another.
I see no reason why Condition couldn't be played in "as the action is announced" window.

You can play Govern the Unaligned followed by Conditioning, but there is no “as announced” effects on those cards.

What I meant to clarify is that one cannot play Govern the Unaligned followed by Conditioning and then Seduction (as announced card) because when playing Conditioning the “as announced” window is considered passed and closed…for it to be a legal play one has to play GtU followed by Seduction and then Conditioning.

Govern the Unaligned


Conditioning


Warning: Spoiler!

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27 Aug 2023 09:24 - 27 Aug 2023 09:25 #109180 by KoRneeshon
Would really like a confirmation from Ankha on this one. I thought that "as announced" is just a time window, so IMO playing GtU, then Conditioning and then Seduction (latter two in the "as announced" window) should be allowed.
If it's not, then it means that only one "as announced" card / effect could be played / used per action, because after that first one, the "as announced" window is closed. Is this the case?
Last edit: 27 Aug 2023 09:25 by KoRneeshon.

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27 Aug 2023 11:41 - 27 Aug 2023 15:54 #109181 by inm8
One can play as many "as announced" effects that one can and wants but once one plays an effect that isn´t played in the "as announced" window or pass the impulse the "as announced” window is closed for that action.
Last edit: 27 Aug 2023 15:54 by inm8. Reason: Spelling

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