When is a discipline considered to have been used?
19 Nov 2024 11:35 #113127
by Coyote
When is a discipline considered to have been used? was created by Coyote
When is a discipline considered to have been used?
When is it played?
When does the effect take place?
In both cases?
To make it clearer.
If an action is played with discipline X and then a vampire takes the place of another with the mask of a thousand faces, who is considered to have played discipline X?
The vampire who played the card?
The vampire who carried out the effect?
Both?
Name: Mask of a Thousand Faces
[Jyhad:U, VTES:U, CE:U, KMW:PB2, LotN:PA, KoT:U, HttB:PSam2]
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Discipline: Obfuscate
[obf] Only usable by a ready, unlocked vampire other than the acting minion who is capable of performing the action. Not usable if any action modifiers or other effects have been used that could not have been used if this vampire were the acting vampire. Unlock the acting minion and lock this vampire instead. The action continues with this vampire as the acting minion.
[OBF] As above, with +1 stealth.
Artist: Jeff Menges; Leif Jones
When is it played?
When does the effect take place?
In both cases?
To make it clearer.
If an action is played with discipline X and then a vampire takes the place of another with the mask of a thousand faces, who is considered to have played discipline X?
The vampire who played the card?
The vampire who carried out the effect?
Both?
Name: Mask of a Thousand Faces
[Jyhad:U, VTES:U, CE:U, KMW:PB2, LotN:PA, KoT:U, HttB:PSam2]
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Discipline: Obfuscate
[obf] Only usable by a ready, unlocked vampire other than the acting minion who is capable of performing the action. Not usable if any action modifiers or other effects have been used that could not have been used if this vampire were the acting vampire. Unlock the acting minion and lock this vampire instead. The action continues with this vampire as the acting minion.
[OBF] As above, with +1 stealth.
Artist: Jeff Menges; Leif Jones
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19 Nov 2024 12:29 - 19 Nov 2024 12:33 #113128
by acbishop
Replied by acbishop on topic When is a discipline considered to have been used?
The vampire playing the action modifier at the time the action modifier was played is the one considered using it taht.
If you check vdb, this is the rulling that would support that
The masking vampire can play a modifier already played by the masked minion. He cannot use a limited effect (ie. bleed enhancer) if a limited effect has already been used on the action. [ANK 20190117-1]
check also this thread. www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/77308-mask-of-a-1000-faces-and-bleed-modifiers#92987
If you check vdb, this is the rulling that would support that
The masking vampire can play a modifier already played by the masked minion. He cannot use a limited effect (ie. bleed enhancer) if a limited effect has already been used on the action. [ANK 20190117-1]
check also this thread. www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/77308-mask-of-a-1000-faces-and-bleed-modifiers#92987
Last edit: 19 Nov 2024 12:33 by acbishop.
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21 Nov 2024 08:53 - 21 Nov 2024 08:59 #113151
by Coyote
Replied by Coyote on topic When is a discipline considered to have been used?
I was thinking about actions, not about modifiers.
Imagine this scenario
2 vampires with animalism, obfuscate and presence. Both with a dabbler.
Vampire A plays Breaking the bonds
Vampire B Plays Mask of a Thousand Faces
Who can use his Dabbler.
Dabbler says:
Name: Dabbler
[HttB:R/B1, NB2:PMi2]
Cardtype: Master
Archetype. Trifle.
Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn, after an action (successful or not) is resolved during which this vampire used 3 or more Disciplines to play cards, this vampire can either burn 1 blood to unlock or gain 1 blood. A vampire can have only one archetype.
Artist: Matt Smith
Depending on the definition of used (played or performed) will define which vampire could use Dabbler in that scenario.
This afternoon I am going to play a deck with this issue. I hope I get an answer before.
If not...
I will judge that Use=Play (although it would be probably better to my deck Use=Perform and this way I will end with both vampires unlocked. If Use=Play you can only gain 1 blood. The vampire is already unlocked)
Imagine this scenario
2 vampires with animalism, obfuscate and presence. Both with a dabbler.
Vampire A plays Breaking the bonds
Vampire B Plays Mask of a Thousand Faces
Who can use his Dabbler.
Dabbler says:
Name: Dabbler
[HttB:R/B1, NB2:PMi2]
Cardtype: Master
Archetype. Trifle.
Put this card on a vampire you control. Once each turn, after an action (successful or not) is resolved during which this vampire used 3 or more Disciplines to play cards, this vampire can either burn 1 blood to unlock or gain 1 blood. A vampire can have only one archetype.
Artist: Matt Smith
Depending on the definition of used (played or performed) will define which vampire could use Dabbler in that scenario.
This afternoon I am going to play a deck with this issue. I hope I get an answer before.
If not...
I will judge that Use=Play (although it would be probably better to my deck Use=Perform and this way I will end with both vampires unlocked. If Use=Play you can only gain 1 blood. The vampire is already unlocked)
Last edit: 21 Nov 2024 08:59 by Coyote.
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21 Nov 2024 09:46 - 21 Nov 2024 10:12 #113154
by acbishop
Replied by acbishop on topic When is a discipline considered to have been used?
Editing my answer as it was wrong
Last edit: 21 Nov 2024 10:12 by acbishop.
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21 Nov 2024 09:56 - 21 Nov 2024 09:57 #113156
by Ankha
B cannot as they only played an Obfuscate card (Mask of a Thousand Faces)
Name: Break the Bonds
[V5C:PR8]
Cardtype: Action
Discipline: Animalism/Obfuscate/Presence
Requires an Anarch. More than one Discipline can be used to play this card. Bleed.
[ani] The bleed is with +1 bleed.
[obf] If the bleed is successful, you can lock a minion controlled by the target Methuselah.
[pre] If the bleed is successful, add 1 blood to a vampire in your uncontrolled region.
Replied by Ankha on topic When is a discipline considered to have been used?
Assuming A played Break the Bonds (not Breaking the Bonds) using three Disciplines, A can gain 1 blood from the Dabbler.I was thinking about actions, not about modifiers.
Imagine this scenario
2 vampires with animalism, obfuscate and presence. Both with a dabbler.
Vampire A plays Breaking the bonds
Vampire B Plays Mask of a Thousand Faces
Who can use his Dabbler.
B cannot as they only played an Obfuscate card (Mask of a Thousand Faces)
Name: Break the Bonds
[V5C:PR8]
Cardtype: Action
Discipline: Animalism/Obfuscate/Presence
Requires an Anarch. More than one Discipline can be used to play this card. Bleed.
[ani] The bleed is with +1 bleed.
[obf] If the bleed is successful, you can lock a minion controlled by the target Methuselah.
[pre] If the bleed is successful, add 1 blood to a vampire in your uncontrolled region.
Last edit: 21 Nov 2024 09:57 by Ankha.
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