On Parity Shift 6. "problematic card".

bakija wrote:

Lots of effort was put into retroactively making it less overpowered [...] cards that obliquely or directly hose Parity Shift)

Could you be more precise ? I don't see what exactly have been done to obliquely or directly hose Parity Shift.


And - but that may be because of the somehow low playing level of my playgroup - I have never felt Parity Shift as "insanely overpowered". Things like War ghoul, Dragon's Breath, Graverobbing, or in the "pool damage" compartiment, the good old Govern + conditionning seem a lot more powerful than a parity shift.

Parity shift is best played early, since even 3-player parity Shift loose a lot of the impact, and need a lot of setup to actually kill someone as opposed to weakening a still strong opponent, and like every vote can be blocked or canceled by your predator rather easily. So, I believe that claims like "Parity Shift have alway been insanely overpowered" seem a bit of a stretch to me.

Väinämöinen wrote:

[sarcastic] changing Govern the Unaligned?? it's in many TWDA decks, very strong card with two strong uses, one of which is great bloat/accelerate function, gives "3 pool swing" and has practically no prerequisites...[/sarcastic]

Bring it back to , where it belongs

bakija wrote:

Lots of effort was put into retroactively making it less overpowered [...] cards that obliquely or directly hose Parity Shift)

Ohlmann wrote:

Could you be more precise ? I don't see what exactly have been done to obliquely or directly hose Parity Shift.

REACTION TO HOSE POLITICAL ACTIONS REQUIRING A TITLE
Confusion of the Eye

REACTIONS TO HOSE POLITICAL ACTIONS
Army of Apparitions
Unexpected Coalition
Covincraft
Touch of Pain
Wrong and Crosswise

REACTION TO HOSE POOL CHANGING POLITICAL ACTIONS
Poison Pill

MASTERS TO HOSE POLITICAL ACTIONS
Vox Domini
Yawp Court


Q: What is the strongest political action that doesn't require setup (RevCo) or a younger vampire (Banishment)?

A: PARITY SHIFT

I'd also argue Parity Shift is easily better than those two above, but some folks may trot out those examples.

Ohlmann wrote:

Could you be more precise ? I don't see what exactly have been done to obliquely or directly hose Parity Shift.

Poison Pill obliquely hoses Parity Shift. Confusion of the Eye directly hoses Parity Shift.

And - but that may be because of the somehow low playing level of my playgroup - I have never felt Parity Shift as "insanely overpowered". Things like War ghoul, Dragon's Breath, Graverobbing, or in the "pool damage" compartiment, the good old Govern + conditionning seem a lot more powerful than a parity shift.

Have you been run over by a speedy Nosferatu Parity Shift deck (i.e. T1: Zillah's out Selma the Repugnant. T2: Make her a Legendary Vampire. Parity shift for 5. Buy more minions. Spend pool. Lather, rinse, repeat.)? They are incredibly effective. Making your prey lose 5 pool and you gain 5 pool at the same time is very, very powerful. Yes. Govern+Conditioning is very powerful too. But due to the ubiquity and power of bleed bounce (i.e. it shows up in most decks, and me bleeding you for 5 at +3 stealth has a very significant chance of actually be me bleeding your prey for 5 at +3 stealth), that sort of thing is, while not actually totally reasonable, not as crazy as a Parity Shift. As with the Parity Shift, you are gaining 5 pool at the same time.

Parity shift is best played early, since even 3-player parity Shift loose a lot of the impact,

When the game is down to 3 players, you are still hitting someone for 3, just like a KRC. And gaining 3 pool at the same time.

and need a lot of setup to actually kill someone as opposed to weakening a still strong opponent,

Parity Shift someone 2 or 3 times and then kill them with KRC or some swarm bleeds. Not much set up. It is very easy to manipulate your own pool levels so that the Parity Shifts can hit when you want them to hit.

and like every vote can be blocked or canceled by your predator rather easily. So, I believe that claims like "Parity Shift have alway been insanely overpowered" seem a bit of a stretch to me.

Yes. It can be foiled. So can a Con Ag. But the Con Ag doesn't do 5 damage to one player and gain you 5 pool at the same time. With an added cost of "Play the vampires that you were playing anyway, and spend some pool."

I don't think that anyone can justifiably argue that Parity Shift is not one of the most powerful cards in the game. I think it would be difficult for someone to argue that it isn't probably the most effective Political Action in the game. After that, the difference from "very powerful card" to "insanely overpowered" is just a matter of degree.

Thanks for the clarifications.

bakija wrote:

After that, the difference from "very powerful card" to "insanely overpowered" is just a matter of degree.

Well, I believe it's not only a matter of degree. "Insanely overpowered" would mean that every deck, every time would pack a very significant part

I come from the magic crowd. Comparison between Parity shift and the power that overpowered magic card lead me to believe you overhype the power of parity shift. It does not kill deck archetypes outright. It does not replace all others damage votes. It does not lead to silly deck that oust in three turns or can onlty be beaten by packing half your library with confusion from the eye. That would be insane.

With Parity Shift we have a pretty powerful card, but it's not a must-have in every deck unlike villein or giant blood. Even in vote deck, it does not replace every damage vote. And it's not the easier to play card.

I believe the "insanely overpowered" opinion is to insist that you want to see it banned or errated, but I am not convinced. Given the condition, Parity Shift is "just" the govern + conditionning of vote deck, not an unholy unstoppable juggernaut.

Ohlmann wrote:

I come from the magic crowd. Comparison between Parity shift and the power that overpowered magic card lead me to believe you overhype the power of parity shift. It does not kill deck archetypes outright. It does not replace all others damage votes.

But it does provide an unprecedented swing in relative pool (i.e. 10). And is more powerful than any other vote in the game in any reasonable situation, by a significant margin. And, generally speaking, probably *should* replace most other damaging votes.

With Parity Shift we have a pretty powerful card, but it's not a must-have in every deck unlike villein or giant blood. Even in vote deck, it does not replace every damage vote. And it's not the easier to play card.

What it is is an incredibly (over) powerful card that makes building other vote decks that don't have access to Parity Shift mostly futile. Which makes it a card that really needs fixing.

I believe the "insanely overpowered" opinion is to insist that you want to see it banned or errated, but I am not convinced.

I think you are spending too much thought trying to parse my specific phraseology. "Insanely overpowered" does not have a specific definition. It is an indication that I think it is excessively powerful. Which I do.