On Tupdog 7. "problematic card".

I don't think anybody is saying they're overpowered. Yes, I think giving that many goodies to a 1-cap whose disadvantage gets totally compensated with free crypt draws was a bad idea, but overpowered is a bit hard to nail in a multiplayer game.

I think most people hate Tupdogs with a passion because it ruins games. Yes, weenie potence ruins games too but at least you can actually use potence and those crypt csrds for something that doesn't destroy games too. Tupdogs can *only* be used to make other people waste 2 hours of their time and are a big fuck you towards the whole multiplayer/playing the table meta that is so important in V:TES.

That said, Adam made a good point how changing the game to discourage bad players from building bad decks is a slippery slope, which is probably the best argument I've read against a change.

I'd rather see them go than stay, but unfortunately I realize they are here to stay so we'll just have to wait until everyone starts packing fortitude and the first thing that happens at a table is the Tupdogs getting removed with backwards and crosstable KRCs.

Izaak wrote:

Tupdogs can *only* be used to make other people waste 2 hours of their time and are a big fuck you towards the whole multiplayer/playing the table meta that is so important in V:TES.

Can't a gargoyle deck play mainly non-tupdog crypt and 2 or 3 tupdogs to save when you absolutely need to kill something here and now ? Especially with wider view available to fish for a tupdog when your predator have some unholy abomination that will finish you off if you don't do something about it.

Edit : I meant to say "play that kind of crypt and be efficient in table winning". Since having near to your entire crypt dedicated to kill thing does not really help you that much.