Best combat combo

Ardan Lane + Theft of Vitae + Rego Motus

steal 3 blood (not preventable, also effective against allies like Ren Garou, War Ghoul, Ponticulus, Tye Cooper etc, plus a possible prevent of 4 dam. only weakness: Immo. Grapple and Cel Combat)

This is not the case with Catatonic Fear + TV. Echiang pretty much summed it up,

No, he did not. What he did was give examples about decision making in an actual game. These examples are all fine, except that they assume you have TV:CF in your deck. Those decisions being sound has nothing to do with the actual strength of the combo in itself.

but the argument that it isn't effective against animalism/guns is moot. It's still a S:CE and last time I checked, that trumps everything except for IG. While not as powerful as say aids/crows in terms of stripping blood off opposing vampires, it can and DOES send folks to torpor mid-to-late game while keeping your vampires nice and safe.

This is besides the point, really.

Ankha's point is that if you use Catatonic Fear + T:V as a combat strategy, it's hardly more effective than *just* Target Vitals with the added bonus that the latter is not a two-card combo, can be used under grapple and doesn't require superior presence.

If your want to use S:CE, there are superior choices to Catatonic Fear in Majesty which has an untap, Staredown which is free and Unholy Penance that provides a conditional +1 bleed.

If your deck is designed to be some sort of bruise-but-sometimes-not kind of deck then, sure, it's pretty decent combination of cards, but why are you using presence to do it?

I guess it can be decent in a Free States Rant deck or a deck running a lot of Temptations or even Shattering Crescendo's.

Isanwayen wrote:

only weakness: Immo. Grapple and Cel Combat

And all S:CE, Outside the Hourglass + Domain of Evernight, Coma, Entombment, and cards like Acrobatics or Stutter step. The main advantage being that ani / cel is scarcely played (both uncommon and not too attractive), and S:CE / send to torpor strike are not common offensive strategy.

Ohlmann wrote:

Isanwayen wrote:

only weakness: Immo. Grapple and Cel Combat

And all S:CE, Outside the Hourglass + Domain of Evernight, Coma, Entombment, and cards like Acrobatics or Stutter step. The main advantage being that ani / cel is scarcely played (both uncommon and not too attractive), and S:CE / send to torpor strike are not common offensive strategy.

Point is, catatonic fear with target vitals deal damage to the opposing minion even if it combat end as a strike.

Izaak wrote:

Ankha's point is that if you use Catatonic Fear + T:V as a combat strategy, it's hardly more effective than *just* Target Vitals with the added bonus that the latter is not a two-card combo, can be used under grapple and doesn't require superior presence.

"Hardly more effective"? Maybe if your meta doesn't feature much prevent or S:CE but is mainly all about dodging, going to long without doing damage or immortal grappling. CT+T:V is better than T:V against almost all combos in this thread. The defensive aspect is a big deal and doing three damage is also big. I have played the combo (as well as Loving Agony + T:V) a lot and it has performed consistently well.

Sure, Majesty is better in many decks but having a credible combat threat with a solid defense is very good - especially when blocking to make your predator think twice about going after you willy-nilly.

Lech wrote:

Point is, catatonic fear with target vitals deal damage to the opposing minion even if it combat end as a strike.

I believe it's a mix up. I was talking about the combat combo done by Ardan Lane + Theft of Vitae + Rego Motus, saying it was not all that resilient.