Madame Guil Typhonic Beast

Smaul wrote:

Let's say it in other words. If you put a serpentis, once you have it on, you gain as much presses as typhonic beast on the deck. Direct gain I think.

Madame Guil don't have superior potence. Once you have it on AND you have the eye of hazimel, you may gain presses which may or may not be useful.

Whatever way you spin it, you require at least three differents elements to gain a press. Not worth a place in the deck for me.

Ohlmann wrote:

Too much moving part for too few thing in my opinion. When you need 2-5 slots to be able to use two master phase to have a slight boost on a third card if you equipped a fourth one, it's too complicated and direct way to get press are much better.

2-5 slots? It's *one* slot. Lilith's Blessing is just good by itself and he's using Blood Dolls, expecting to pay a bit of blood in combat (until he has the Eye), and (maybe) using the Monster to get untaps all the time. Madame (and others) will be down to zero blood in no time.

Ohlmann wrote:

Compare badly to more flash, ore simply Mob Connection.

There is NO WAY I'd put Mob Connections in this deck over a Serpentis Master. Seriously? I could see both, but Serpentis over MC any day.

I could make the strong case that every Flash should be removed and made into Resist Earth's Grasp. Your ideal combat would then be Rush with Eye, play TB, stay at close as default, maneuver if needed to Grapple, but only against Guns or S:CE, hit them for 3 (due to Eye+TB), prevent 1, press at POT/SER, play another TB, repeat with hit for 4, prevent 2. That requires fewer moving parts than using Pursuits and Blurs and hoping for a Round 1 torporization. If anything, more Immortal Grapples/Typhonic Beasts and fewer Blurs.

Pursuit tends to be better than Flash or Blur.

5 Grapples seems low. I wouldn't go below 7.

Since you're not playing guns, Sire's Index Finger doesn't seem terribly useful.

You absolutely must include Michael Luther to push the Alastor vote.

On that same subject, I would diversify the vote push. 8 votes is not even close to a guaranteed pass these days. Perfect Paragon doubles as stealth, you know.

Depending on your meta, I would add either Anarch Troublemaker for contesting or a Sudden Reversal. Troublemaker will put your balls in a vise if you have the Eye and every bleed deck plays it.

EDIT: Looks like nobody mentioned Enkil Cog, so... Enkil Cog.

Jeff wrote:

Lilith's Blessing is just good by itself

1 pool and 2 MPAs for a situational 3 blood is not that great. If you get to use it twice it's 3 MPAs for 6 blood, which is almost as good as Svadharma, which is to say still not very good at all.

Before even going near Lilith's Blessing, I would consider using those 3 MPAs for Dreams of the Sphinx, Perfectionist, Guardian Angel, Pentex, Hunting Ground, Jake Washington etc.

Jeff wrote:

2-5 slots? It's *one* slot. Lilith's Blessing is just good by itself and he's using Blood Dolls, expecting to pay a bit of blood in combat (until he has the Eye), and (maybe) using the Monster to get untaps all the time. Madame (and others) will be down to zero blood in no time.

As Suoli so aptly said it : there is way better way to gain blood for a star deck like this one. It may not be entirely stupid to put Lillith since it's never stupid, but that's not the good deck for it.

Jeff wrote:

There is NO WAY I'd put Mob Connections in this deck over a Serpentis Master. Seriously? I could see both, but Serpentis over MC any day.

Seriously, you're going overboard here. Mob Connection have one real drawback : it cannot be used to press to end. Still, if press are that needed, it's a much better way to get them than the serpentis master, because it will work when you need it, and immediatly once you play it.

Jeff wrote:

I could make the strong case that every Flash should be removed and made into Resist Earth's Grasp.

And I would kind of agree. They may be a point where there is too many card that cost blood, but it's reasonable.

Jeff wrote:

Your ideal combat would then be Rush with Eye, play TB, stay at close as default, maneuver if needed to Grapple, but only against Guns or S:CE, hit them for 3 (due to Eye+TB), prevent 1, press at POT/SER, play another TB, repeat with hit for 4, prevent 2. That requires fewer moving parts than using Pursuits and Blurs and hoping for a Round 1 torporization. If anything, more Immortal Grapples/Typhonic Beasts and fewer Blurs.

Except that by the time Madame Guil is fully equiped with all thoses moving part, hitting your opponent for 7 will very often be overkill. You need press to press out of combat if thing go badly, or soon enough so that vampire still have lot of blood. In other word, Blur + Typhonic beast have the very real advantage of working out of the box, not even needing a single action or MPA after Guil enter play, when you need to have everything equipped to use the typhonic beast press. I.E., your best case will happen too late too often.

Also, Pursuit allow for more maneuver. Since the deck don't have too many maneuver, swapping blur for Pursuit would be an extremely good idea.

I also agree about Enkil Cog x1.

Ohlmann wrote:

Seriously, you're going overboard here. Mob Connection have one real drawback : it cannot be used to press to end. Still, if press are that needed, it's a much better way to get them than the serpentis master, because it will work when you need it, and immediatly once you play it.

Mob Connections can be burned. This deck is not built to defend permanents. If you play the Serpentis skill card on Madame Guil, she just gained a press as well. You are likely to have Typhonic Beasts in hand.

Ohlmann wrote:

Except that by the time Madame Guil is fully equiped with all thoses moving part, hitting your opponent for 7 will very often be overkill. You need press to press out of combat if thing go badly, or soon enough so that vampire still have lot of blood. In other word, Blur + Typhonic beast have the very real advantage of working out of the box, not even needing a single action or MPA after Guil enter play, when you need to have everything equipped to use the typhonic beast press. I.E., your best case will happen too late too often.

So I put to you this: Why play Typhonic Beast at all if you are going to not take advantage of superior Serpentis? Torn Signpost and Fists of Death are just as good in this case. The small amount of damage prevention is incidental. Use Guardian Angels and Sideslip then.

Ohlmann wrote:

Also, Pursuit allow for more maneuver. Since the deck don't have too many maneuver, swapping blur for Pursuit would be an extremely good idea.

I also agree about Enkil Cog x1.

Pursuit is fine. Anarch Troublemaker for contesting is fine.

Enkil Cog is not so fine since Madame Guil bleeds for 3 with Eye of Hazimel. Cog makes her a permanent Archon Investigation target.