file Harbinger Tap and Bleed help?

21 Oct 2016 03:19 - 21 Oct 2016 03:21 #78722 by xXLazarusXx
Deck Name: HoS Tap n Bleed
Author: Jakob Haley
Description:
Im trying to make this work. I know other clans (:giov:) do it better! I'm trying to make it work with Group 2 vampires.
90% of my cards are from AH back, so my newer stuff is limited to singles I order off ebay, so keep that in mind when looking at the construction.

Any input would be appreciated.


Crypt (14 cards; Capacity min=6 max=9 avg=7.4)
==================
4x Egothha 7 obf AUS FOR NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2
4x Gisela Harden, The Winnower 7 aus dem FOR NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2
1x Anisa Marianna Lopez 8 aus FOR NEC QUI Harbinger of Skulls:2
1x Unre, Keeper of Golgotha 9 dom ser thn AUS FOR NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2
4x Agaitas, The Scholar of Antiquities6 for AUS NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2

Master (19 cards)
==================
1x Elder Library
1x Fragment of the Book of Nod
1x Giant's Blood
1x Information Highway
1x KRCG News Radio
2x Legendary Vampire
1x Maabara
3x Minion Tap
1x Misdirection
1x Rack, The
4x Blood Doll
2x Dominate

Action (25 cards)
==================
2x Force of Will
4x Govern the Unaligned
10x Jar the Soul
4x Rapid Healing
3x Restoration
2x Whispers from the Dead

Action Modifier (20 cards)
==================
2x Freak Drive
10x Seduction
6x Conditioning
2x Day Operation

Action Modifier/Reaction (10 cards)
==================
10x Spectral Divination

Combat (11 cards)
==================
2x Hidden Strength
1x Rolling with the Punches
3x Skin of Rock
4x Skin of Steel
1x Spiritual Intervention

Equipment (4 cards)
==================
4x Laptop Computer

Reaction (8 cards)
==================
5x Obedience
2x Wake with Evening's Freshness
1x Deflection

Prince of Lodi, Ca
Everyone must ride with Charon, by and by. We merely wish to know what to ask him before we step onto his boat.
:hosk:
Last edit: 21 Oct 2016 03:21 by xXLazarusXx.

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21 Oct 2016 09:26 - 21 Oct 2016 09:44 #78728 by Bloodartist
Well, I can't say I have much experience with some of these cards, but few things I notice:

- You have several obedience, but crypt is mostly medium-sized (cap 6-7). I think this might cause problems. Maybe I'm biased because my local playgroup tends to always have large vampires of some sort but.. I don't know what you should have instead.. maybe some kind of equipment like ivory bow? Obedience also only works when reacting, and your plan is to be proactive with tapping and bleeding actions? Is your local playgroup combat-heavy? Then I would understand the obediences.

- On the qui vive is in the abstract strictly better than wake with evenings freshness, but maybe its a card availability thing.

- I think the deck should have more wakes and more deflections, since I assume your vampires should most likely be tapped often if the deck is "working as it should".

- The deck is quite large (97 by my count), maybe it could be thinned down to have the good cards more reliably. (4 govern in 97 cards is not a lot)

- There should probably be more govern the unaligneds, or conditioning.

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 21 Oct 2016 09:44 by Bloodartist.
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21 Oct 2016 12:29 #78729 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Harbinger Tap and Bleed help?

Deck Name: HoS Tap n Bleed
Author: Jakob Haley
Description:
Im trying to make this work. I know other clans (:giov:) do it better! I'm trying to make it work with Group 2 vampires.
90% of my cards are from AH back, so my newer stuff is limited to singles I order off ebay, so keep that in mind when looking at the construction.

I'm a bit puzzled on the strategy involved. Tap and bleed is fine, but why choose a dominate angle considering you play 1 vampire out of 14 that has Dominate (inferior) and 2 Dominate skills?
Anyway, let's see what we can do

Crypt (14 cards; Capacity min=6 max=9 avg=7.4)
==================
4x Egothha 7 obf AUS FOR NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2
4x Gisela Harden, The Winnower 7 aus dem FOR NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2
1x Anisa Marianna Lopez 8 aus FOR NEC QUI Harbinger of Skulls:2
1x Unre, Keeper of Golgotha 9 dom ser thn AUS FOR NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2
4x Agaitas, The Scholar of Antiquities6 for AUS NEC Harbinger of Skulls:2


As I said, the crypt is AUS/NEC oriented. Unre seems too costly considering you're not planning to burn vampires so her special is rather useless. Anisa costs 8, but doesn't have superior auspex. I would drop her the same way. You can either play 4 copies of Egothha, Gisela and Agaitas (12 total) or think about adding support vampires such as Le Dinh Tho.

Master (19 cards)
==================
1x Elder Library
1x Fragment of the Book of Nod
1x Giant's Blood
1x Information Highway
1x KRCG News Radio
2x Legendary Vampire
1x Maabara
3x Minion Tap
1x Misdirection
1x Rack, The
4x Blood Doll
2x Dominate


I would drop the Dominate angle completely, starting with the skills. You could replace them with 2 Wider Views that will help you cycle your crypt, and gain some pool.

Action (25 cards)
==================
2x Force of Will
4x Govern the Unaligned
10x Jar the Soul
4x Rapid Healing
3x Restoration
2x Whispers from the Dead


I'm not a big fan of the tap / Force of Will / Rapid Healing combo because you don't have much stealth (risk of diablerie when you get out) and you don't have enough Freak Drive to play a Rapid Healing the same turn you play Force of Will.
The Govern the Unaligned should be removed if you don't play Dominate. Don't worry - we'll use something else.

So let's say
-2x Force of Will
-4x Govern the Unaligned
-4x Rapid Healing

Action Modifier (20 cards)
==================
2x Freak Drive
10x Seduction
6x Conditioning
2x Day Operation


I'd remove the Conditioning and replace them with Trochomancy which is a golden card for Harbingers:

Trochomancy
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Auspex & Necromancy
[nec] Remove 13 cards in the target Methuselah's ash heap from the game to get +1 bleed. Not usable if there aren't enough cards in that ash heap. You cannot play another action modifier to increase this bleed.
[aus][nec] As [nec] above, but remove only 7 cards.
[AUS][NEC] As [aus][nec] above, but for +2 bleed.

Since we removed the Govern too, you could add 8 of these.
There should be more Freak Drive (at least 5) so that you can tap a vampire with Jar the Soul, then bleed with the same vampire. 10 Seduction seems a lot, but why not?

Action Modifier/Reaction (10 cards)
==================
10x Spectral Divination

10 seems too much because you can't play 2 during the same action. Putting some Call of the Hungry Dead instead wouldn't hurt.

Combat (11 cards)
==================
2x Hidden Strength
1x Rolling with the Punches
3x Skin of Rock
4x Skin of Steel
1x Spiritual Intervention


I'd probably play more Rolling with the Punches, especially if the Dominate angle is dropped (you need to replace those Obediences). I'd probably play Weighted Walking Stick to punish opposing minions.

Equipment (4 cards)
==================
4x Laptop Computer

Consider playing Codex of the Edenic Groundskeepers
Type: Equipment
Cost: 1 pool
Unique equipment.
This minion gets -2 stealth when bleeding. This minion may bleed as a (D) action that costs 1 blood; this action gets +3 bleed if the target Methuselah doesn't control a ready untapped minion.

It's a promo card and goes well in tap'n'bleed strategies.

Reaction (8 cards)
==================
5x Obedience
2x Wake with Evening's Freshness
1x Deflection


I'd remove the Obedience and the Deflection. You're clearly lacking Wake cards (Eyes of Argus is the best you can get here, but they are hard to find). You should put some (4-5) Telepathic Misdirection as a bleed defense.

So here's what I suggest:

Deck Name : Harbingers of Skull - tap'n'bleed
Author : Ankha
Description :

Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 5 max: 7 average: 6.41667
4x Egothha (7):AUS: :FOR: :NEC: :obf:Harbinger of Skulls(group 2)
3x Gisela Harden, The Winnower (7):FOR: :NEC: :aus: :dem:priscusHarbinger of Skulls(group 2)
3x Agaitas, The Scholar of Antiquities (6):AUS: :NEC: :for:Harbinger of Skulls(group 2)
2x Le Dinh Tho (5):NEC: :aus: :dom:Nagaraja(group 2)

Library [90 cards]

Action [12]
9x Jar the Soul
2x Restoration
1x Whispers from the Dead

Action Modifier [26]
3x Call of the Hungry Dead
2x Day Operation
5x Freak Drive
7x Seduction
9x Trochomancy

Action Modifier/Reaction [7]
7x Spectral Divination

Combat [13]
2x Hidden Strength
4x Rolling with the Punches
2x Skin of Rock
2x Skin of Steel
3x Spiritual Intervention

Equipment [4]
3x Camera Phone => far better than Laptop since you don't play bleed actions anymore
1x Codex of the Edenic Groundskeepers

Master [20]
1x Anarch Troublemaker => can't live without it in a tap'n'bleed
1x Barrens, The => more useful than Elder Library if you need to get rid of a late Legendary Vampire, or a card stolen from your prey with Agaitas
6x Blood Doll => rather than 4 BD + 3 Minion Tap
1x Fragment of the Book of Nod
1x Giant's Blood
2x KRCG News Radio => WMRH is better if you have one
2x Legendary Vampire
1x Maabara
1x Misdirection
1x Powerbase: Montreal => slightly better than Information Highway considering the new crypt size
1x Rack, The
2x Wider View

Reaction [8]
4x Telepathic Misdirection
4x Wake with Evening's Freshness

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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21 Oct 2016 20:19 - 21 Oct 2016 22:55 #78731 by xXLazarusXx
Thank you for your help fellas.
As I said, I'm working with *mostly* Ancient hearts back, but I've got a good smattering of stuff. So, my crypt and ANYTHING post Ancient hearts I have had to getake from ebay.
That being said I have the majority of your suggestions, and I'll look into them.
I've been trying to find a usable ONLY harbingers deck,
Looks like I'll be haunting ebay this evening.

Prince of Lodi, Ca
Everyone must ride with Charon, by and by. We merely wish to know what to ask him before we step onto his boat.
:hosk:
Last edit: 21 Oct 2016 22:55 by xXLazarusXx.

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22 Oct 2016 00:41 #78732 by brandonsantacruz
Before you go hog wild paying rickstock way try much money for cards I world suggest you make some simple changes to your deck along the lines of what ankha recommends. If you need to use just harbingers that is fine. Dominate needs to go. Here are your staple cards:

Master to tap (anarch troublemaker, misdirection)
Tap or bleed action cards (jar the soul, computer hacking, pulse, laptop, j.s, Tasha)
Action mods to stealth (NEC cards, daring the dawn, crocodile tongue)
+ Bleed (trochomancy, leverage)
Wake and bounce
Combat ends

If you don't have those your friends may have extras. None of them should cost much.

Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

brandonsantacruz.blogspot.com/
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22 Oct 2016 00:51 - 22 Oct 2016 00:58 #78733 by xXLazarusXx
Thanks man,
Master to tap (into have a ton of misdirection, only 2 troublemakers.)
Tap or bleed (I have at least 2 or 4 of most of what you mentioned)
Action mods to stealth ( thanks for the tip with the tongue)
+ bleed (unfortunately ebay is my only option for any more of either of these)
I have tons more wake. What do you mean by bounce?
And combat ends, I'll look into this.



So, here's the dynamic with my playgroup.
I met these fellas whom were gamers but not vtes. I convinced them to chip in and we bought around 10,000 cards in lots from ebay for a stock pool all the players could draw from.
More like a LCG, kinda.
So trading with others in our group is kinda irrelevant. EBay is one one of my(our) only resources.
I'm going to go ahead and add what I can from our pool, but I do realize that I'm missing a good 10 or so years worth of sets to choose from.
The others in our group expressed intrest in getting more "blocks of cards" but nothing has come of it yet.
So, when anyone wants to add anything "exotic" it is on our dime.

Prince of Lodi, Ca
Everyone must ride with Charon, by and by. We merely wish to know what to ask him before we step onto his boat.
:hosk:
Last edit: 22 Oct 2016 00:58 by xXLazarusXx.

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