file Archetype Decks

26 Nov 2018 14:12 #92016 by jblacey
Replied by jblacey on topic Archetype Decks


You can give them the quick pitch of VTES but when it comes time to explain the clans and the disciplines, how will you do it? And then, once you've given a brief summary of the clans (for example) will the decks you made be thematically coherent with the descriptions of the clans you gave? Are you going to ignore the grouping rule?


I explain clans and disciplines all the time. The problem is that I can't just tell people if you want to play this clan or this discipline, then buy this starter. And decks that I play in a tournament are going to be very foreign to players that stay within the lines of the clan/disciplines coloring book.

Let's side step this conversation slightly and address another card game, Magic. Originally, Starters only included the 5 basic colors. However, it evolved over time to recognize that ally colors can help to make full deck concepts. We kinda do that in VTES. If I want to do Celerity Guns then maybe I run Toreador/Brujah/Assimite in my crypt and then if I need something to combine them together... I turn them Anarch.

I have never seen anything like that in a VTES starter. That said, I am not going to try to convince Black Chantry to this, but I need to have loaner decks for players that tell me they don't have any competitive decks that can win in a tournament.

Furthermore, you want your players to have fun, but you've included at least 3 archetypes that are notoriously unfun to play against - possibly all of the decks could be unfun if you're not careful.


Fun is a little subjective. I am more concerned if the decks are fun to play (not against). IMHO, the least fun deck to play against is the one where you know you have no chance to win and you are either waiting to die or you never got to play a card. Totally get it.

However, I plan to incorporate strategies and cards into these decks that specifically deal with the less fun aspects of other decks. If you don't plan for the circumstance, then you are accepting the consequences.

Including stealth-bleed or power-bleed or swarm-bleed is basically asking the prey of such a predator not to play again. Wall decks are frustrating to play against - their entire modus operandi of locking someone out of the game is guaranteeing they won't want to play again. If your vote deck is the only deck with any real titles, you're cutting out what is arguably the most defining aspect of the game - the politics. New players are likely to have very long turns, and those turns where they're not doing anything (i.e. on another player's turn) are likely to make them bored. Political actions are the only real means of getting everyone involved. Unfortunately, most political decks are really just KRC decks. And voting to burn pool is, IMO and experience, lame - you've basically played a card that lets you bleed for 3 via the scenic route.


All the more reason to design the decks together.

What you need, what VTES needs, IMO, is 5 decks that 1) thematically capture the essence of their respective clans; 2) all have a fair chance of winning regardless of seating; 3) have quick setup but low down-time; 4) cards specifically to enable those things.


Clan specific decks are short sighted (and have been tried), but I agree with the rest.

So here are my suggestions (for you and Black Chantry):

not affiliated, but maybe they will read. For the most part, I agree with what you saying. However, I would caution you to not try to solve all the world's problems in one forum post.

Instead lets just build 5 decks that are fun, diverse, and competitive (and legal). Then see where it goes from there.

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26 Nov 2018 15:23 #92018 by ReverendRevolver
Replied by ReverendRevolver on topic Archetype Decks
Now that I'm not mostly asleep something occurred to me:

It's easy to make a sort of textbook example of several decks, fine tuning it to your crypt.

BC is already making cam starters to tie into V5.

For obvious reasons, most viable decks in many archetype use several clans.
Why dont we analyze Extant vamps in G4-6 as a foundation of crypts for these archetypes (even as filler) and then throw out ideas on the correct vamps that make it both newby friendly and viable WHILE sticking to one sect as much as possible.
The decks would remain (library wise) usable for another crypt, but it could be useful to tailor 2to3 vamps per deck to a specific archetype.

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26 Nov 2018 16:43 #92020 by 1uck
Replied by 1uck on topic Archetype Decks

I think one of the decks should be Assamite starter to show what really can happen at VtES table :lol:


Oh jeez, I actually played that at a tournament when I was first starting out with VTES.

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26 Nov 2018 18:11 #92026 by jblacey
Replied by jblacey on topic Archetype Decks

For obvious reasons, most viable decks in many archetype use several clans.


Some times it is simple like adding specific vampire to make an Archetype work. Example: Adding Nana or Enkidu to a crypt of :nosf: and !nosf! for card flow and built in rush options.

Why dont we analyze Extant vamps in G4-6 as a foundation of crypts for these archetypes (even as filler) and then throw out ideas on the correct vamps that make it both newby friendly and viable WHILE sticking to one sect as much as possible.


I did have a concept of sect decks at one point: 1 Cam, 1 Sabbat, 1 Laibon, 1 Anarch. The issue there is it pretty much slants most of the cards towards political actions or requiring titles.

The group restriction is less of an issue for me. The problem is that one specific grouping limits the number of occurences of certain abilites and vampires with those abilities and increases the likelihood of contesting. It is going to happen for Masters, most likely. However, it is really bad when it happens to vampires. We would have to be very careful with crypt selection.

I am totally good with someone using Alonso Petrodon in a Vote deck, but keep in mind he could just as easily be played in a Combat+ or Bleed+ deck. So just keep mind that if you limit to specific grouping you are increasing the odds of that happening.

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27 Nov 2018 01:32 - 27 Nov 2018 01:47 #92032 by LivesByProxy
Replied by LivesByProxy on topic Archetype Decks
So what is the next step?

Someone once suggested making the optional discard phase a mandatory discard just to get new players into the habit of cycling cards. What do you think about this?

Edit: Regarding unusual crypt compositions like Tor/Brujah/Assamite based around Celerity, I'm skeptical. I think new players will see unused disciplines or abilities that aren't relevant and wonder 'Why am I playing this guy?' Unless you're talking about weenie :CEL:..?

:gang: :CEL: :FOR: :PRO: :cap6: Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean :PRO: until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex :AUS:, Obfuscate :OBF:, or Potence :POT: for the current action.
Last edit: 27 Nov 2018 01:47 by LivesByProxy.

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27 Nov 2018 03:19 #92034 by elotar
Replied by elotar on topic Archetype Decks

1 Cam, 1 Sabbat, 1 Laibon, 1 Anarch.


This is, actually, cool idea. Just add 1 independent.

:splat: NC Russia
:DEM::san::nec::cap4:

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