Expansion Update

PS: since I like to help my new players as much as possible, I would like to ask you to tell me what are those 4 budget decks by PM.
I'm not going to the EC and will keep them a secret, don't worry.

I'm not saying they are budget decks, although they aren't really expensive either. I'm saying they are decks that are built with cards that can be gotten from booster boxes that are still available. Since booster boxes cost around €60 when I bought them and now sell for €30-€35, picking up a LOT of good cards is actually quite easy.

Then if you're serious about your hobby, you can easily pay 45 euro's to get a 7-9 Villeins from E-bay and you're good to go. I mean, at the moment the only really insanely expensive cards are Liquidation, Ashur Tablets, Enkil Cog and Summon History (and maybe Deep Song). None of these are required for a generic competitive collection. Enkil Cog is ridiculously overrated, Ashur/Liquidation requires a very specialized deck to work and Summon History is just a trick deck.

So of those, ye sure, Deep Song is pretty staple and is a pain in the bollocks to get and its inflated prize is mostly a result of people thinking Nana/Ashur/Animalism gives them free tournament wins. Then again, animalism worked just fine when everyone was still using Haven Uncovered and Bum's Rush. As a matter of fact, I got my 500 dollar Ashur/Liquidation Cybele Great Beast deck completely schooled by a $5,- oldschool midcap animalism deck with zero copies of Deep Song last friday.

Jesper wrote:

Brum wrote:

Now please stop comparing your case (with lots of choices) with people that have 1 or 2 pre constructed decks. Even if they buy a box of boosters, the rares they get are rather irrelevant to the players like you and me that already have them. Yes, I can borrow cards to people.

That argument dosent make any sense. Yes ofcouse, people who have only a few card have limited posibilities and might not be able to make all the top tier decks. But that would also be true if the game was still in print. With that argument, you could say that even if the game was being printed you should have the option to play proxies, becouse some might only have two pre.constructed decks to build from. I peronally hate proxies, if im in a play group where they are used, ill ofcouse accept it, but in my pg we try to aviod it.

And about villein, after they started to go for like 5-6$ arent it kinda a mute point?
"yes, i will spend 100s/1.000s of $ to go to this tournement, but i just WONT pay 6$ for a Villein, or even just ask to borrow them"

That's not what I wrote, so yeah, that doesn't make sense at all to me either.
The thing you quoted also involves people buying booster boxes and still being at a loss, because the cards they want can only be bought via singles. That's CCG model going down the toilet right there.

Villeins are 12+ US Doll. Don't know where you find them as cheap as 6.
They were that cheap before the game went out of print. Not any more.
That's the whole point.
Why should we care about the value of some cards going down while the game is out of print?

Who benefits from legalizing some proxies? New or poor players.
Who loses from legalizing some proxies?

Brum wrote:

Villeins are 12+ US Doll. Don't know where you find them as cheap as 6.

There was recently an eBay auction for 6x Villein that went for $36. These auctions show up on eBay all the time.

nc-italy wrote:

Brum wrote:

Who benefits from legalizing some proxies? New or poor players.
Who loses from legalizing some proxies?

As already said: the game would lose *all* of its value and
companies won't be interested at all in picking it up again

Considering to proxy the existing cards is suicidal in the respect of
keeping the game of some interest for any company that
could pick it up again in the future

I don't think that is the case. What will convince a company to print the game is profitability, that much we agree on.

What some of the pro-proxy card crowd is arguing is that allowing proxies will attract new players, as the rising cost of cards discourages a growing player base and older players will quit because of lack of new cards rising costs of acquiring new cards.

By your logic, a VENK supported, fan created expansion will also be "suicidal in the respect of keeping the game of some interest for any company that could pick it up again in the future." Why should a publisher print a game where the fans create their own cards and print them for competitive play?

The reason is, VEKN wants to keep the game active by adding new cards. That will presumably retain existing players. What the crux is, that leaves V:tES in the state it was in when it was dropped by its publisher.

The question is, do you want the game to stay as it is or grow?