Playtest Application

1) Bart Van Gheluwe, belgaman[at]hotmail.com, Brasschaat, Belgium

2) yes, I promise

3) We used to play about 2 times per month, but the last year we only played the game 3 evenings or so... We have played the game since 1994, Jyhad cards are still an important piece of our decks. We have never played a tournament, but we used to have a dedicated core.

4) I used to be a couple of hours per week, but as stated in answer 3: the last year or so has been very calm related to VTES.

5) Indeed, it's very hard to choose two deck types, since I like to vary a lot. That's why I choose two deck types all other players will try to kill my deck first: it raises extra tension.
I like the crazy deck (without the combo/trick part ) filled with Malkavian Pranks, Games Of Malkav and other completely unpredictable cards because it often drives the other players into despair: their well thought-over, powerfull and balanced decks don't perform as expected. It often backfires, though
I also like my Imbued deck with a lot of events that cripple vampires. The other players always grunt when they realise "it's that deck again". But, as with any deck, it can be beaten...

6) Since we don't like our current play rate, a motivational factor is very welcome to reactivate our sleeping player group. So yes, I promise to play at least two games per week during one month when playtesting.

7) + 8) I probably talk in stereotypes, but I'm just happy to talk about the game again. So don't blame me for being obvious

In our play group we have never encountered a deck that wiped every table. And doing the same trick over and over again becomes pretty boring as well. And predictable... We like to experiment. Sometimes a deck idea works great in one game and gets immediately smoked in another. When the other players know you often use a certain way of playing, they will prepare themselves and hit that deck (type) on its weak spot. But it might be a whole other play experience on tournaments... I've never been on one, so I couldn't tell.

Example: I notice here on the forum a lot of people see Villein as a problem. We haven't played it often. Powerful cards / combos tend to draw too much attention and in that way they may become very ineffective. If every other player has some Sudden Reversals in his/her deck (we usually have), a deck relying on masters to get pumped and without a backup plan will fail big time. Sure, it will slow your own play down, but isn't it fun you have the possibility to kill every big plan? You can't foresee every situation, but in VTES as I know it there's cure for every cancer... You just hope no other player has created a medicine against your disease. We've seen decks relying on big cap vamps and massive pool gain wipe a table and a game later get smoked by relatively small vamp combat decks before they could pull off their first trick... (example:(ok, it's card intensive and a big risk relying on so much different cards needed in one round AND if you don't watch out your library deck is gone before you know it and you're ousted...) Bum's Rush, Torn signpost, Concealed weapon, Wooden Stake, Decapitate in the round after a big cap vamp was being brought into play. There also were some additional strike cards and some Psyche! cards in that deck to counter some S:CE or damage prevention cards. It's probably not the best deck idea ever, but in that particular situation it worked quite well ). Brainwash is also fun to cripple big cap vamp decks, especially when they have no "service" weeners.

We have never used proxies, but it might be an interesting idea to get new players onboard since the initial costs might be too big just to get started. (but miniature games like Warhammer also cost you an arm and a leg to play it as you should). I think it must be possible to have different categories of tournaments / game nights:

• a "only official and original cards allowed" competition. It's still a CCG.
• a "proxy" competition. Here you can show your deck building skills without financial/availability restrictions.
• a "check what selection of fan based expansion cards is allowed" + "proxy" competition
• a "buy a preconstructed deck and go" competition. Here you can show your situation handling skills.
• a "I have to show my skills in every forementioned discipline" competition

I would like to see V:TES evolve to WOD:TES (World Of Darkness:The Eternal Struggle) Other players I know despised Imbued in the crypt, but I would like to see werewolves, ghouls, mummies, whatever... in the crypt to open whole new play dynamics. It would be nice to see specific strengths and vulnerabilities between the different types of monsters...

9) no questions to add

Ira wrote:

1) Please list your first and last name, e-mail address, and city/country where you play. If you regularly play online using JOL or another system, you may list that in addition to your physical city.

Peter Bakija, , Ithaca NY. JOL bakija.

2) Do you promise to keep secret all the cards and content of the playtest until at least 12 months after the release of the set?

Always did.

3) How often do you actually play VTES? Describe in a sentence or two (weekly casual game, tournaments, etc.)

Weekly for a couple hours, occasionally host tournaments, occasionally go to tournaments hosted by other folks. Online with JOL all the time.

4) Approximately how many hours per week do you spend on VTES-related things? (including deckbuilding, playing, forum posts, organizing events, etc.)

5? 10?

5) Pick up to two of the following as your favorite decktypes to build and play (yes, I know it may be hard to pick just two):
Bleed, Vote, Combat, Toolbox, Crazy Combo/Trick, Weenie, Star Minion, Allies/Imbued, Specific Clan (name the clan), Specific Discipline (name the discipline)

Combat, weenie mono discipline.

6) If selected as a playtester, do you promise to play at least 2 games per week (for 1 month) using at least some of the cards from the playtest? These would need to be at least 3 player games.

Yep.

7

I suspect there is enough history of me doing this on the internet to make doing so now redundant.

8) What are the top three things that you think could be improved about the game?

Make stealth bleeding slightly less effective. Kill a small number of cards that negatively impact the fun quotient of the game. Upgrade some of the fringier strategies.

9) What question would you add/change on this application to ensure we get the best playtesters?

Other than "are you an irrational wackjob", not really.

johannes wrote:

Rest assured that the new set will be carefully designed and playtested (I think more than it ever was, especially the latter), any fear of overpowered cards is unwarranted, I promsise.

I seem to recall hearing that the amount of underpowered cards, ie. wallpaper, should be more or less non-existent.

1) Please list your first and last name, e-mail address, and city/country where you play. If you regularly play online using JOL or another system, you may list that in addition to your physical city.

David Litwin, , Las Vegas, NV, No online systems used at the moment.

2) Do you promise to keep secret all the cards and content of the playtest until at least 12 months after the release of the set?

Yes.

3) How often do you actually play VTES? Describe in a sentence or two (weekly casual game, tournaments, etc.)

0-2 sessions/week, anywhere from 4-6 games/session on average.

4) Approximately how many hours per week do you spend on VTES-related things? (including deck building, playing, forum posts, organizing events, etc.)

Not a fair question as I have spent 8 hours at work making/tweaking decks. Not counting work time a few hours to 10+ depending if I'm working on new archetypes/defense against meta game, trying to break cards in amusing ways.

Guide and Mentor against anti-hunting tech.

5) Pick up to two of the following as your favorite deck types to build and play (yes, I know it may be hard to pick just two):

Vote, Star Minion

6) If selected as a play tester, do you promise to play at least 2 games per week (for 1 month) using at least some of the cards from the play test? These would need to be at least 3 player games.

Kind of defeats the point of play testing if you don't.

7) Pick any card idea from this forum (that hasn't been picked yet in this thread), include a link to it, and describe why it is or is not balanced. Feel free to compare to existing cards, give examples of a potentially broken combo, etc.

Name: Ekkehard
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Harbinger of Skulls
Group: 1
Capacity: 6
Discipline: for AUS NEC
Sabbat. Black Hand: Ekkehard may remove 3 master cards or 3 cards with the same name from any Methuselah's ash heap to make that Methuselah burn 2 pool as a action.

Upsides.

The game certainly lacks interaction with the ash heap beyond Ashur Tablets. Sure the Giovanni do some but beyond that there is very little. This guy allows you to attack master cycling decks in a way they have to defend against and still has a use if you run into a prey who plays few master cards. the obvious interaction with Slaughterhouse and more Brinkmanship ideas is apparent. This is a fairly nice upside and something more that could be expanded on in a themed set.

He doesn't seem to be paying much if anything for his Black Handage and doesn't gain much benefit from it as configured.

Downsides:

Group 1. This makes him the only non-Camarilla vampire in G1. He's be better served put into G6 to further flesh out what is only half done.
G1/2 Black Hand friends do not share NEC and only AUS and/or for with Tariq giving him no other friends that use Disciplines for that.
As a G1 he shares the exact same disciplines as another HOS, Agaitas who is also a 6 cap who he would certainly team with.
In G6 he shares capacity and lacks obf to match La Viuda Blanca. A better option but more diversity in a Bloodline clan seems it would be better.

All that above is really nitpicking. He isn't broken nor underpowered, the only two things that really make me pause are the ability to do 2 pool damage that can't be defended against without blocking(no obvious combos jump out at me for abuse) and the fact it is a D action at anyone and not just prey.

The ability to spend time and actions against a crossable player is the opposite of what my V:TES world would have. There is already so many decks built that spend too much game time worrying crossable instead of ousting their prey. The only absolute change I would make to this vampire would be to make it affect prey only. Instead of causing 2 pool damage, have it trigger in the successful bleed window(Dis Pater/Spying Mission) to give him +2 bleed. This way it can't be bounced by the prey after gaining +2 bleed, and now weakens their bounce defense as they need to consider bouncing a bleed of 1 to protect masters/other stuff in their ash heap. He can now bleed for 3(Trochomancy and it becomes 5 with his text) removing 10 cards in the prey's ash heap. 10 cards is a lot so it can't happen often, and still is inferior to what Dominate can do using one more card. A good lunge move but not sustainable.

If someone crossable is running away with master cards their prey/pred can't handle this guy won't change that and only do what I think is the main problem in VTES, slowing the game down.

Overall an interesting idea with some tweaks could fit right in.

8) What are the top three things that you think could be improved about the game?

1. Work on timeouts. While no changes to VPs or such should be done, encouraging people to interact with the person they're supposed to kill instead of everyone else. Cards that have extra functions when used on your prey, or just encourage you to oust players. (Bitter and Sweet story being a nice example) While managing the table is still important, rolling through a prey or two also puts you in a position to manage the problem by just ousting it.

2. One set of keywords for each type of action/effect. Texts like what has been more consistent along the lines of 'capacity 8 or greater' against 'capacity over 7'. While this has marginal impact on existing cards with no chance of real prints anywhere in sight, new cards should adhere to a consistent form.

3. Continued interaction of new cards with old cards and even using them to contain existing problems. Villein was a good idea that it was attempting to change Minion Tap but it went well beyond any original intent. The fact it made MT all but useless, and was just better in most decks including interaction with a second MPA. Vessel is a nice example of what I consider a better way to do this. It provided an alternate choice to Blood Doll that each deck in design makes. While Blood Doll is still just the better card, the fact Vessel is a trifle can earn it slots in a master heavy deck or a deck that can't afford the risk of losing a Blood Doll.

9) What question would you add/change on this application to ensure we get the best play testers?

The main questions are already asked but I'd still include a few more. I'd add amount of organized play/casual as I play rather different decks depending which I'm in. Also consider size of play group as with a smaller group players will tend to tailor decks a bit against what they expect to see and knowing what some players just never play. Tied in with that I'd have them summarize what they think their playgroup focuses on(if anything). To pick on the LA crowd I'd summarize them as intercept heavy, being if I look at any decks I made in 2007-08 (when I was playing down their fairly often) they all had 25-30 stealth cards in them.

Now to answer my own question my play group doesn't have any real focus as a whole. A bit more random combat(not grapple/psyche) and much more likely to be Sabbat than Camarilla.

If it hasn't been seen yet also here is my reports from events where I tend to put what I was thinking/reading a game. As said before I'd an affront to the Queen's English and I generally only update it for tournaments so don't go back thinking it is a weekly posting.

www.obtenebration.org/blog/