file Card idea: Pawn influence

17 Feb 2012 07:19 #23363 by Jussi
Replied by Jussi on topic Re: Card idea: Pawn influence

What problem is that card supposed to solve? Do you really think the game needs more masters? More bloat? Besides, a balanced version of your card has already been printed:

Social Ladder

Master

Master.
Put this card on a ready vampire you control. During your influence phase, remove this vampire from the game and move all the blood counters from that vampire to an older vampire in your uncontrolled region.


If card ideas are supposed to be ones that satisfy everyone's perception of what game needs and one must be enlightened enough to presage what everyone feels that is good for the game, what is the point to post any ideas at all?

Besides, Social Ladder is just pure crap.

!bruj! :CEL: :POT: :PRE: :cap6:
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Banging trashcans, breaking windows
We'll wake you up tonight

We like the good time, we scream and shout
And that's what fun's about
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17 Feb 2012 10:19 #23365 by jamesatzephyr

If card ideas are supposed to be ones that satisfy everyone's perception of what game needs and one must be enlightened enough to presage what everyone feels that is good for the game, what is the point to post any ideas at all?


I doubt that anyone feels that card ideas should pass that threshold, but there are quite a few card ideas presented that don't seem to do anything to improve the game - even in the creator's opinion, in some cases. Coming across a bizarre Necromancy ritual in the Steampunk Corpse Dessication Handbook and mechanistically implementing it in V:TES, even though it requires an antediuvian in torpor who has a piece of electronic equipment, only usable on Tuesdays - there's not really much discussion to be had.


It would often be nice if a creator could shove on a sentence or two saying "I think this would enable...", "I think this would help decks survive...", "I think this would make the game more fun because...", "My Baali/Brujah cross-over deck would love this because it would let me..."
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17 Feb 2012 13:01 #23367 by Jussi
Replied by Jussi on topic Re: Card idea: Pawn influence
No, they won't. I was feeling "smart" at that point.

Anyway, Mika did throw in a question how we think about the idea, following with a thought: "Maybe this could diversify influence strategy :)"

To fill the thought: I do think, that card in a process would diversify influence strategy. Further, given card would in some extent diversify crypt card selection where you could have 4-cap and 6-cap emerge in two turns (given, that you had 8 transfers of course). This can be accomplished several ways with current card pool, of which one is Information Highway (unique), other Dreams of Sphinx (unique).

What would improve, is mild bloat option and mild crypt acceleration in the same card. Only Grooming the Protege (and Social Ladder) do that, but differently. Hence, you wouldn't need that much master cards in your deck for for both influencing and bloating.

And, lastly: Pawn influence would greatly improve my Brujah Antitribu deck, since I would hasten vampire influencing without cumbersome and somewhat risky Villein+Lilith's Blessing combo :) This was the initial thought I had when I saw original idea.

!bruj! :CEL: :POT: :PRE: :cap6:
----
Banging trashcans, breaking windows
We'll wake you up tonight

We like the good time, we scream and shout
And that's what fun's about

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17 Feb 2012 14:08 - 17 Feb 2012 14:09 #23371 by jamesatzephyr

What would improve, is mild bloat option and mild crypt acceleration in the same card. Only Grooming the Protege (and Social Ladder) do that, but differently.


Well, them and Govern the Unaligned, Scouting Mission, Bay and Howl, Hive Mind, Enchant Kindred, the five or so Ecoterrorists/Art Museum type cards etc. (Quite a few of the 'etc.' are a bit fringey/expensive - I've only listed the ones that seem obviously more reasonable-to-good.)

Several of those can function as offence, as well - Govern being the daddy here, obviously.


Strictly, you can also see Dreams of the Sphinx as both acceleration and mild bloat. I have seen it used for the acceleration aspect, much less for bloat - usually once you have the minions you want out, it tends to go for the hand size option.
Last edit: 17 Feb 2012 14:09 by jamesatzephyr.

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20 Feb 2012 08:27 - 20 Feb 2012 08:29 #23629 by Jussi
Replied by Jussi on topic Re: Card idea: Pawn influence
Sorry about being vague (in the latest quote of mine, at least). What I meant, is that there aren't any other master cards than Grooming the Protege and Social ladder which don't linger in the game and allow user to have crypt acceleration (and bloat) in the same card.

And I forgot Bay and Howl, which is funny and belongs to that short list.

Of Dreams, Art Museum, Powerbase: Montreal, and action cards which act as acceleration, bloat and offensive I'm quite aware of. I'd also like to state that master cards, which allow you to put counters free on your vampire, work differently: Counters are gained from the blood bank, and they linger in the table.

Other cards, including action cards mainly put counters on a younger vampire, which is fine (and balanced). As a side note, there is Reunion Kamut, which is in my opinion quite strong and limited at the both time (and thus well balanced).

Anywhoo, I'd like to make a distinction with both groups here (lingering+free blood/pool and action cards) compared to a master card which is not unique and is played to your ash heap.


But, again there is the aspect of what would improve or change: Maybe card in process (Pawn Influence), would encourage some different crypt contents and diversion or other influence-wise deck design. That, although, would depend on final design of the card and we won't be seeing that.

!bruj! :CEL: :POT: :PRE: :cap6:
----
Banging trashcans, breaking windows
We'll wake you up tonight

We like the good time, we scream and shout
And that's what fun's about
Last edit: 20 Feb 2012 08:29 by Jussi.

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20 Feb 2012 10:23 #23644 by mika
Replied by mika on topic Re: Card idea: Pawn influence
Pawn influence introduces the element of influencing older vamp through younger influence. The use is limited since only one can be played in a turn and it requires to burn blood (no cost so it cannot be circumvented/abused so easily). For me it seems like game has a lot more powerful combos and concepts, and i don't see this one groundbreaking - allowing the change in influence sequence and priorities as well as offering a rather expensive bloat option.

Social ladder is totally different card since it consumes the vamp and allows you to move all the blood (not too bad, aye?)

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