Anti-multi-action

"Deep Thirst"

Only usable when a vampire untaps during it's controllers minion phase. Tap this vampire. The untapping vampire must hunt or move one blood to this vampire.
Usable by an tapped vampire. As above, but untap this vampire.


"Observe and Report"

Only usable when a minion untaps during it's controllers minion phase. This reacting vampire can play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped while the untapping minion is acting until the end of the turn.
As above, with +1 intercept against against the acting minion.
As above, and this vampire may burn a blood to reduce a bleed by that minion by 2.

"Guard Weasels" or "Hamster's Warning"

Only usable when a minion untaps during it's controllers minion phase. Move this card to the acting minion. This minion gets -1 Bleed while the reacting vampire is untapped. A minion may only have one of these cards. This card may be burned as a action.
As above, but playable by a tapped vampire.


"Stolen Momentum"

Only usable by a tapped vampire.
2
Untap this vampire. The cost of this card is reduced by 2 if a minion untaps during it's controllers minion phase.
As above, and the acting minion's controller taps a minion he or she controls.


What do you think? Too conditional? Don't think it's fair to hose multi-action decks? (all's fair in love and eternal struggles is what I say!) Think these will be too good for weenies?

Got any other ideas on the same theme? Can you think of an elegant way to make this idea easier to play?

Could card text "Only usable when a minion untaps during it's controllers minion phase." be better phrased? Could it be relegated to only the superior discipline effects for more versatility, more playability?

The idea itself is intriguing. However, how do you stop this from being a big-cap hoser? The game seems to be heading towards trying to increase the value of large vampires -- through the albeit debatable method of silver bullets against small caps -- so is this something we want to encourage?

Further, as created many of these cards are not flexible, and thus will be rather situation dependent. This sort of design will lead to many cornercase cards. There is a way to keep theme while also keeping things flexible.

So, summary. Find a way to not hurt big caps. Age restrictions to use or targeting younger requirements will help here. Also, have basic and superior different. This is a rather specific condition to hose. Thus greater flexible utility means greater probability to play.

direwolf wrote:

"Deep Thirst"

Only usable when a vampire untaps during it's controllers minion phase. Tap this vampire. The untapping vampire must hunt or move one blood to this vampire.
Usable by an tapped vampire. As above, but untap this vampire.

I don't like the tapping of the reacting vampire part; extraneous cost. I'd also prefer mixing in a sort of mirror image of Croc's Tongue as an alternate use effect. How about?

Deep Thirst

Only usable when attempting to block an ally or a younger vampire. The action is canceled (the blocking minion is not tapped). The acting minion can cancel this card by burning two blood.
Only usable when a vampire untaps during it's controllers minion phase. The untapping vampire must hunt, but gains one less blood from the blood bank.

I got rid of the middle clause of Croc Tongue because it's inverse would read the acting meth cannot attempt that action again, which is too strong. But for sacrificing that, I raised the cost to negate.

direwolf wrote:

"Observe and Report"

Only usable when a minion untaps during it's controllers minion phase. This reacting vampire can play reaction cards and attempt to block as though untapped while the untapping minion is acting until the end of the turn.
As above, with +1 intercept against against the acting minion.
As above, and this vampire may burn a blood to reduce a bleed by that minion by 2.

A rather complicated wake, nu? Why not just play a wake? Far, far too conditional to supplant a wake. This card needs to go back to the drawing board.

direwolf wrote:

"Guard Weasels" or "Hamster's Warning"

Only usable when a minion untaps during it's controllers minion phase. Move this card to the acting minion. This minion gets -1 Bleed while the reacting vampire is untapped. A minion may only have one of these cards. This card may be burned as a action.
As above, but playable by a tapped vampire.

Don't know why it's in ANI, but whatever. Again, needs flexibility. Have a different basic or superior. Also rather bleed specific. What is this thematic to? I'll keep it, but let me try:

Leaves Too Many Tracks

Requires a vampire with capacity greater than 4, or 1 Aye.
Burn a blood to give the acting minion -1 stealth. If you have Aye, you do not burn blood.
Only usable when a minion untaps during its controllers minion phase. Put this card on the acting minion. The minion with this card gets -2 bleed. Any minion may burn this card as a +1 stealth action.

Used the Scobax wording instead of Ignis Fatuus (which is more powerful). Also used Darksight sup wording altered, too. Shifting it to superior AND adding that highly conditional clause makes it very cornercase, so I had to up the bleed penalty. Still not completely sold on the final product, though. The concept intrigues me, I admit.

direwolf wrote:

"Stolen Momentum"

Only usable by a tapped vampire.
2
Untap this vampire. The cost of this card is reduced by 2 if a minion untaps during it's controllers minion phase.
As above, and the acting minion's controller taps a minion he or she controls.

Again, a complicated or very expensive wake. The superior is very interesting though. But how do you cost that? Let's try:

Stolen Momentum

Only usable against an ally or younger vampire.
2 blood
Reduce a bleed against you by 3.
Tap another ally or vampire the same age or younger than the acting minion controlled by the same methuselah.

Damn Path of Paradox screws up all cost controls... Even still, I feel this still needs work. Stealing an action away, though interesting, is a huge shot across the bow.

direwolf wrote:

What do you think? Too conditional? Don't think it's fair to hose multi-action decks? (all's fair in love and eternal struggles is what I say!) Think these will be too good for weenies?

Got any other ideas on the same theme? Can you think of an elegant way to make this idea easier to play?

Could card text "Only usable when a minion untaps during it's controllers minion phase." be better phrased? Could it be relegated to only the superior discipline effects for more versatility, more playability?

I roughly reiterate your concerns. I think there's real concerns to hosing, namely what does it add to the game's play. If everyone's stocking counter spells, eventually it becomes a war of attrition waiting to see which bomb gets a chance to go off.

I'd like to see additional ways here for large caps to get more actions outside of Freak Drive dependency, before I worry too much about action cancel. Already people stick with the idea that a big cap is useless without FOR, so this isn't going to help matters.

Something I would like to see is a CEL freak drive, even if it did have action cancel:

Pestering
:action modifier:
1 blood
Requires a vampire with capacity 4 or greater. A vampire can play only one Pestering each turn.
Only usable during your predator or prey's minion phase. Cancel the untapping of one of their vampires with a capacity below 7. Or, tap one of their vampire with a capacity below 4.
Play after resolving an action (successfully or not). Untap him or her.

Overall, as cool as I dig the idea of action hosing -- as a game design concept -- I don't know if the VTES card pool is ready for something like this.

Quite frankly, I'd better see card that raise the value of non-multi acting vampire thant card that hose multi acting, because multi acting is fun.

Una deck in my opinion need something more directed against it. Like a limit on 3 freak drive or something.

Or you just limit Freak Drive to one per turn and be done with it.

You have now increased the value of 7+ cap vampires without fortitude and have not really changed "non-abusive" Freak Drive use.

No need to bother with complicated cards that are way too silver bullet to be playable and no need to design cards that target vampires without fortitude that will just end up benefitting those with fortitude.

In the process you also fix Una, limited the amount of actions superstars like Nergal or Stanislava can do each turn and got rid of the silly "hunt Freak Drive" chains to flush excess Freak Drives.

Everybody wins.

The easiest solution to fixing Una is to just errata her special to only affect combat cards.

Or you just limit Freak Drive to one per turn and be done with it.

You have now increased the value of 7+ cap vampires without fortitude and have not really changed "non-abusive" Freak Drive use.

No, bigger vampires without remain as limited as they are now and get no better while the others take a step down.