Submission: Punitive expedition (POT rush/burn location)

Ankha wrote:

Punitive expedition
+1 stealth action
Burn a location.
Enter combat with a minion.

This is the best version yet. The stealth is appropriate with Obf, not just Pot.

Overall: I´d try not to powercreep Potence combat in this kind of way. There is really no need.

Ohlmann wrote:

Ashur wrote:

Overall: I´d try not to powercreep Potence combat in this kind of way. There is really no need.

And that's why good card should be reserved to the clan that already have access to powerful card like Carrion crow and Deep song.

Reserved? Who said reserved? Anyone with pot+obf could play this card right? 84 vampires who are not Nos or !Nos?

I´m sure you get my point about theme if you really try.

Ohlmann wrote:

Ashur wrote:

Reserved? Who said reserved? Anyone with pot+obf could play this card right? 84 vampires who are not Nos or !Nos?

Because of course people want to play brujah or Lasombra with obfuscate, like they absolutely want to play brujah with dominate.

Is this some kind of argument? YES, I like to play Brujah with dominate!

Ohlmann wrote:

Sarcasm aside, Potence + Obfuscate is strongly linked to animalism, you will hacve an hard time to deny it. So deck who are already "rich" with the very strong deep song, and animalism blocking ability will gain this in addition to everything they got. Non-nosferatu deck will have a lot of trouble to use the card. So it would be a complete miss for me.

What has Nos having access to Deep Song to do with this card? I play 14 Deep Song in some decks, and I would trade NONE of those Deep Songs-slots for this card in that deck (or any deck I guess)

Ohlmann wrote:

Ashur wrote:

I´m sure you get my point about theme if you really try.

The other way around is true too : both on thematic and gameplay level there is no reason to say potence action should never be stealthy, and you could admit that. Next stop you will say Templar and archon should require obfuscate because they are +1 stealth rush ?

The understanding of what is themeatically correct is pretty low at this forum. People seem more interested in powercreeping the game than understanding the original game.

Potence is a displine that is all about brute force. Vampires with just potence and no sneaky tricks like obf don´t go around tip-toeing - if they want a building destroyed they just destroy it. Or at least this is my take on potence.

This leads to that I also have problems with the +2/+3 stealth on Preternatural Strenght/Heroic Might. I don´t "see" what is happening, immersion-wise, when Jimmy Dunn gets Heroic Might in the same way that I see what is happening when a methuselah pull some strings to get Jimmy Dunn a .44 Magnum.

BUT I do also understand game play. All theme aside I think the great stealth on these actions is good for the game!

Your Templar/Archon-analogy I don´t understand at all. Templars and Archons are sneaky guys or guys that has a great network of sneaky underlings, so I think it makes sense that they can find you and attack you with stealth.

(Sorry if this post offends some people that think VTES is "just a game", "just some cards" or so. I think much of the fun with VTES is that it´s not just numbers, icons and calculation. Sorry)