Nameless Victim - Red-List Convert

Ohlmann wrote:

That's the main problem. Seeing a 2-cap sabbat make an Inner Circle Red List is stupid to the extrem.

Nameless Victim (Version 3)
Caitiff
Capacity: 1
Non-unique. -1 bleed, -1 stealth. Any older vampire you control may take a +1 stealth action to remove Nameless Victim from the game and make a non-titled minion controlled by your Prey or Predator Red-List. When this vampire enters play, draw a vampire from your crypt.

I like the idea but I would keep the titled restriction and/or a younger clause to the action. I can't believe a vampire with no politic/generation power will convince anibody tu put someone else on the list.

Also, I would make the "draw a crypt card" text attached to the action. It leads otherwise to too much abuse.

I don't see what you could do with them but some one will. And without using any card he will be able to put 4 new vampire in play each turn and with info highway/montreal 7 each turn.

And I allready see a good use of it without any relation to red listing : you can fill your crypt with 6 of them and you have a 6 card crypt for a small cost and some chump blockers...

Having nameless weenie works for Anarch lore, but not for redlist. At best it might work as an advancement, or should require to burn an 8cap+ when entering play (with some benefit, e.g. allowing to put the blood from the burned vamp to your uncontrolled region).

kombainas wrote:

Having nameless weenie works for Anarch lore, but not for redlist. At best it might work as an advancement, or should require to burn an 8cap+ when entering play (with some benefit, e.g. allowing to put the blood from the burned vamp to your uncontrolled region).

Well, nameless weenies work in that they exist anywhere, and the sudden destruction of one can be enough to justify some kind of bounty on the head of the 'culprit'. That's how politic work in camarilla (less so in sabbat, where destruction ain't really a crime). And Red List seem to be a general mechanism for "this one is tracked and there is a bounty on him", since sabbat vampire can collect trophy ; there is even one useful to sabbat only.

The main problem is that 1-cap weenie cyclable in another crypt card is a bit on the powerful side, or at least on the annoying side. Finding a way to make him share uniqueness with the anarch convert would be useful.

Ohlmann wrote:

Finding a way to make him share uniqueness with the anarch convert would be useful.

That's easy: just make it the advanced anarch convert.

Timo wrote:

I don't see what you could do with them but some one will. And without using any card he will be able to put 4 new vampire in play each turn and with info highway/montreal 7 each turn.

And I allready see a good use of it without any relation to red listing : you can fill your crypt with 6 of them and you have a 6 card crypt for a small cost and some chump blockers...

1) No, you could not use them to bring out 6 minions in a turn. All minions leave the uncontrolled region as the last step of the influence phase. So you would move them into play, then draw the replacement vampires, then immediately go to your Discard phase. There wouldn't be a chance to bring out more of them in a single influence phase.

2) Being able to load a crypt with these in an attempt to cycle your crypt hard is basically paying 1-pool+1-transfer for an Effective Management... it's strictly worse than Wider View as well. I also haven't seen Tupdogs abused like that, and they would basically do the same thing. I doubt you're suddenly going to see these things tearing up tournaments as the sole-crypt cycling trick since they have no real ability to oust your prey in the turn after you get them.


3) For people worried about bloating with them, remember... Caitiff is not a 'clan'. They can't Con Boon. About the best you could do is feed them to Al-Muntaqim... which is its own slow process and otherwise not very useful.