[Submission] Survivor of Kaymakli (HoS card removal and pool damage)

If I already play trochomancy, I would certainly put more trochomancy instead of this card. Trochomancy and this card does not work together at all since both consume the same "ressource" for the same end. But Trochomancy is way better.

So, I believe the 3/ is utterly failed. At least for me, I would never, ever consider putting both in a deck.

Ohlmann wrote:

If I already play trochomancy, I would certainly put more trochomancy instead of this card. Trochomancy and this card does not work together at all since both consume the same "ressource" for the same end. But Trochomancy is way better.

So, I believe the 3/ is utterly failed. At least for me, I would never, ever consider putting both in a deck.

This card is a stackable army of rats. Trochomancy is just to make sure it goes off. How hard is it to start eating away an ash heap 13-7 cards at a time? Thats just to help it happen though, during yoir preys untap, each Harbinger wearing one of these hits your prey for a pool if they have no cards in ash heap. Shy of nod fragment, or barrens between yoir minion phase and this triggering, they burn pool. On average, g2 hos probably have 3-4 vamps out in normal setup who may be hos, maybe one weenie. G4 with 3 or 5 see the same amount, maybe ben-nun with solomon and the bishop with ani, or the laibon plus phagian and the bishop(name escapez me).

So, maybe 4 ish pool being burned, plus using jack and maybe rats. Seems ok to me. All it costs is an action, and keeping the minion above ground. Even computer hacking daring the dawn 2 times with trochomancy pump, oitferior lord of serenity, and discard could basically be a lunge of 9.......

Edit: oops. Its not a bishop with ani, is the 7 cap laibon. So, pheasibly, bobalao, nicomedes, zygadat, mina, and solomon could be ready with tapping or villeining, or probably using groomings and pb monty.
So, while HoS arwnt helped tons by this card, its one of the few balanced and playable ones i think ive seen in awhile.

Theres less than half a dozen HoS crypt angles, so the number of HoS decks are small. Competent ones even smaller in number. This card(id have to test it before being certain) could become a HoS archetype. Samedi are good with dead hookers, HoS could have survivor wall. Survivor of K plus jack, then add in animalism if you want, sabbat if you want, and you have a for aus wall with a different feel than stickmen grinders. Even using g2 with omaya would be viable, with abbots, pb monty and barranquilla, and maybe aome hungry coyote action.

Ith gives them an archetype, which is far from making them great, but its a start.

playing Trochomancy with the hope to make it unplayable as fast as possible does not sound like a sound plan to me.

And once you take into account that your goal is to empty 3 ash heaps at least, it start to stop making any sense. If you do 10 trochomancy bleed in a game on average, why do you need this card exactly ?

Edit : also, if your opponent is careful to let 6 card in his ash heap (via discard and careful cycling), the card is useless, and trochomancy don't help.

Ohlmann wrote:

playing Trochomancy with the hope to make it unplayable as fast as possible does not sound like a sound plan to me.

And once you take into account that your goal is to empty 3 ash heaps at least, it start to stop making any sense. If you do 10 trochomancy bleed in a game on average, why do you need this card exactly ?

Edit : also, if your opponent is careful to let 6 card in his ash heap (via discard and careful cycling), the card is useless, and trochomancy don't help.

Im not sure you need ten. Except for liquidation nonsense, 13 cards should be one whole ash heap. With 3-5 of these on yoir guys, best case senario, they arent going to get many cards in the ash heap, and even just 3 of these running is going to mean a few trochomancies do the job, unless they are running dreams plus nod frag plus barrens. Or rushing raptors. Or playing liquidation. So, trochomancy garuntees the pool burns with this, but the point is ousting power for a wall deck. Bleed once, sit, watch prey deal with jack and other pool damage eveey turn. And stop it by torping minions and keeping them down or by hoping to play enough cards and not get trochomancied.p
Not saying its huge, just that it isnt unplayable.

And hacing exactly 6 cards in ash heap is like making sure your death spark is always stacked right in discard pile in mtg. You can do it, but ouch. Also, HoS have slaughterhouse, and more easily, millimg or discarding abilities on minions. They can make 6 into 7.

13 card should be a whole ash heap ? That's 2 card per turn at maximum. You can triple that easily, especially since your later prey will have had at least 10-15 turn of play. So 10 trochomancy for 3 prey, which is more or less your objective to get a GW.

And if you begin to need milling to make the card work, it's... well, clunky at the extrem. Especially since Slaughterhouse is completely at odds with this card.

I really don't see what's the hate here... Maybe just general "VEKN members really love to hate!", but who knows.

What I see here is a potentially very powerful card, which leans Harbingers towards either milling OR Ash Heap destroying. I don't really even know if this should be burnable or not. It has a chance of being on the weak side, but on the other hand it could be very effective. Also, I'd say multiple copies of this actually speed up the game (or might have that effect) since your Prey would most likely get some speed on just to fill up his Ash Heap.

The card seems very hard to evaluate on theoretical basis, but I see some great potential here. Especially with G4-5 and animalism angle. Army of rats with a couple of these? It could wreck something. Play testing is what I think it needs.

Really good points about the stalling though, a randomized pick would deal with this. Or just let the judges deal about stalling and power up either the Harbingers or Recursion decks by giving choice?