[Submission] Sabbat crypt cards

Suoli wrote:

Lech wrote:

Shovelhead
none G*
Sabbat: -1 bleed. -1 stealth. When Shovelhead is influenced out, look at the top card of your crypt, if it's non-camarilla vampire, move it to your uncontrolled region and move 1 blood to if from Shovelhead. Non-unique.
It's name for fresh recruits!

First of all, having a non-unique chump blocker for basically no cost in pool, uncontrolled slots or crypt composition is an insanely good combat defense. This is comparable to Nocturns, except it's available to any non-Camarilla deck. If that was the intention, this is definitely too strong. If not, you could give it -1 intercept.

Second, with the current wording you can build a crypt with an arbitrary number of Shovelheads and chain them all out with a single transfer.

The goal was to make dispossable minion that don't cost much resources and don't do much (ie, don't bleed for a lot if any, don't vote in legacy of pander deck, don't help weenie combat decks). More or less it was to create crypt version of shock troops. Which is rather hard task if you don't want to end up with wall of text. I'm not sure if it's doable, but i love the theme.

Shovelhead
none G*
Sabbat: He can't cast votes, perform bleed and political actions. -1 stealth. When Shovelhead is influenced out, you may tap him and burn 1 blood from him to move top sabbat vampire from your crypt to your uncontrolled region and gain 1 pool. Non-unique.

Not really good as chump blocker, cost just a transfer, don't help legacy of pander.

Lech wrote:

The goal was to make dispossable minion that don't cost much resources and don't do much (ie, don't bleed for a lot if any, don't vote in legacy of pander deck, don't help weenie combat decks).

What game need do you think that goal would fill? Assuming you could find a perfect implementation, I mean.

Disposable chump blockers that cost very few resources mean that an important element of the game - attrition - is weakened. The deck that has aggressive combat to weaken blockers and give itself the upper-hand over time relies on things like being able to:

- mess up your crypt-minions so that you can't block again later
- kill your allies (meaning you've wasted pool and actions)
- jam your hand, because you can't cycle cards with minions who are in torpor.


Note also that as an essentially free Pander, it doesn't help fuel Legacy of Pander, but it does help fuel the subsequent Consanguineous Boon: Pander that the LoP deck calls.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Lech wrote:

The goal was to make dispossable minion that don't cost much resources and don't do much (ie, don't bleed for a lot if any, don't vote in legacy of pander deck, don't help weenie combat decks).

What game need do you think that goal would fill? Assuming you could find a perfect implementation, I mean.

Disposable chump blockers that cost very few resources mean that an important element of the game - attrition - is weakened. The deck that has aggressive combat to weaken blockers and give itself the upper-hand over time relies on things like being able to:

- mess up your crypt-minions so that you can't block again later
- kill your allies (meaning you've wasted pool and actions)
- jam your hand, because you can't cycle cards with minions who are in torpor.


Note also that as an essentially free Pander, it doesn't help fuel Legacy of Pander, but it does help fuel the subsequent Consanguineous Boon: Pander that the LoP deck calls.

Missed the -1 intercept it had in non-saved version (instead, i opted for tapping - it will hunt in subsequent turn, then probably act). Yes, i forget about conboon, this minion need to be caitiff (clanless) to be more coherent. Maybe it should have this -1 intercept against vampires then (to prevent wake chump blocking) ?

But back to the goal - it would act as pentex remover, powerbase stealer and general enabler to mask of 1000k faces and hidden lurker. At least i had it in mind.

Skins bad.
Thats the guy from montreal by night, right?

How about: skin may burn a blood to get +2 bleed if your prey controls any vampires with capacity less than 4, or any allies. -1 bleed.
Capacity:4
[DEM] [aus] [for][obf]

Thus, text is relevant to fluff, he has a very real disability, and compating him to Apache Jones, hes less good but playable, and isnt so useless as a weenie !malk with historically the crappiest out of clan inferior !malks get.
Hesxsupport for weenie eyeball and not his clan with big eye, useless cel, and no dementation. Making him help KS decks is minimal due to drawback, but hes playable in ks, and he has solid in clans.
Lastly, marge, apache, and white lily have fortitude. If one more !malk in that grouping gets it, its suddenly very usable. Now, skin havinv cel, for, dem vic and being black hand is cool too. BUT. this is the only sore spot i have with all your submissions. So, i also noticed you only have one !malk. How aboit modified skin, and another BH !malk with AUS cel vic. Thats got BH support all over it. You know how Gabriel is awesome bh support disciplimes? Same idea.

BUT . I love Lauren. Good for !gangrel country gangrel.

And even more awesome, Ecatarina the wise. Sire of Christoff(who needs a card, and clearly has celpotpreproforser, and a special with meleexweapons and blocking tzimitce) and old promethean brujah, turned sabbat bexause of ideology long ago. I dig the hand size effext there .

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Skins bad.
Thats the guy from montreal by night, right?

How about: skin may burn a blood to get +2 bleed if your prey controls any vampires with capacity less than 4, or any allies. -1 bleed.
Capacity:4
[DEM] [aus] [for][obf]

Thus, text is relevant to fluff, he has a very real disability, and compating him to Apache Jones, hes less good but playable, and isnt so useless as a weenie !malk with historically the crappiest out of clan inferior !malks get.
Hesxsupport for weenie eyeball and not his clan with big eye, useless cel, and no dementation. Making him help KS decks is minimal due to drawback, but hes playable in ks, and he has solid in clans.
Lastly, marge, apache, and white lily have fortitude. If one more !malk in that grouping gets it, its suddenly very usable. Now, skin havinv cel, for, dem vic and being black hand is cool too. BUT. this is the only sore spot i have with all your submissions. So, i also noticed you only have one !malk. How aboit modified skin, and another BH !malk with AUS cel vic. Thats got BH support all over it. You know how Gabriel is awesome bh support disciplimes? Same idea.

BUT . I love Lauren. Good for !gangrel country gangrel.

And even more awesome, Ecatarina the wise. Sire of Christoff(who needs a card, and clearly has celpotpreproforser, and a special with meleexweapons and blocking tzimitce) and old promethean brujah, turned sabbat bexause of ideology long ago. I dig the hand size effext there .

Yeah, he was from MobyN and Nights of Prophecy.

Skin design was an afterthough to bh deck i was thinking about.

Your suggestion move him into Midget territory and making g4/g5 good KS alternative to g3/g4. I don't really like KS decks.

So, if we want to change his disciplines. There is strong theme in g4, which is not really supported in g3 (and some 8 cap have superior). There is also strong theme in g4 and marge again have inferior. theme isn't that good to begin with, except one star. can be yet another help for ventrue grinder (or not, as Owain is g3), on the other hand helps osebo.

All in all:

Skin
G5
Sabbat: He may burn 1 blood after successful action against your prey to make him burn 1 pool. -1 bleed.

Not really helpful for KS deck, but nice for some funky pot rush with angle (not to mention quite decent in-clan disciplines for a 4 cap).

Yeah, i also love Ecaterina, grumpy old-timer. Since i first seen her just after VtM:R was released. Cristoff don't really belong here, as he is camarilla pawn (not that i don't like this naive crusader, i do!).

Something like:
Christoff
G6
Camarilla: When Christoff is influenced out first time, he burns 4 blood and have -1 stealth and -1 intercept. He gets press to continue when in combat with Tzimisce. +1 strenght.

Btw: i create those vampires mostly in alphabetical order, !malks are not finished yet, there will be 6-7 cap and 9-10 cap, too (one of those will sport ).

Lech wrote:

Christoff
G6
Camarilla: When Christoff is influenced out first time, he burns 4 blood and have -1 stealth and -1 intercept. He gets press to continue when in combat with Tzimisce. +1 strenght.

The way that's phrased is a little weird, in that you've put the "-1 stealth and -1 intercept" in the "When Christoff is influenced out first time" sentence. Do you mean something like:

Even with that, he feels more than a little over the top. 9 points of disciplines, and 9 points of pretty good disciplines at that, and relatively little trouble regaining blood with, say, Taste of Vitae.