file 2 Player VTES Rules

20 Sep 2015 10:05 - 20 Sep 2015 10:07 #73249 by koko Loco
BenPeal while commenting on an expansion proposal said “Extra credit: Choose cards such that this would work for 2-player V:TES” and it reminded me of many conversations over the years myself and other players have had regarding an official 2 player format for Vtes.

I don’t think this would be the first choice vs a 4+ player game, however I for one would enjoy playing this format vs other players in a few ways:- my local card group, on JoL and on Lackey.As players numbers seem to be shrinking, or bigger games are harder to come by these days.

Not sure what rules I would start with, maybe deck min size of 40 – max size of 60, of course certain cards would need banned in this two player format, such as deflection, sense dep, nightmare curse, brain wash, pentex, certain crypt cards Unna ect

Could we come up with some official rules for 2 player vtes game?

Anyway would like to hear your feedback on what rules would work in a 2 player format or if you don’t think it’s a good idea and why?
Cheers
Last edit: 20 Sep 2015 10:07 by koko Loco. Reason: typo

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20 Sep 2015 11:10 #73254 by TwoRazorReign
Here are some alternate house rules for 2 players I've been toying with.

1. Deckbuilding before games is collaborative. The power levels of the decks should be reasonably balanced.

2. The allotment of transfers at the beginning of the game is as follows: the side taking the first turn gets two transfers, the opposing side then gets three transfers, and then each side gets four transfers thereafter.

3. The Edge does not automatically give one pool during the untap phase. Instead, control of the Edge can be ceded at the start of the turn to gain one pool (this is not considered burning or losing control of the Edge, the Edge simply becomes uncontrolled). Ceding control of the Edge occurs before the untap phase.

4. Cards and effects that change the target of a bleed instead reduce the bleed amount to one. No other card or effect can be used to further reduce or increase the bleed amount. All minion cards that change the target of a bleed cost one blood when used in this way or when using other effects granted by the card. All other effects resulting from playing the card, such as tapping minions, apply as normal. Any cards or effects that cancel cards that change the target of a bleed can be used to cancel cards used in this way.

5. Cards or effects that refer to any predator, any prey, and/or one or more other Methuselahs instead refer to the opposing side.

6. Card or effects that allow one Methuselah to “save” another Methuselah from being ousted awards the “saving” side one additional victory point when the card is played.

7. Cards or effects that allow a minion to block ignoring normal predator, prey, or target restrictions instead allow the minion to untap and attempt to block.

8. Cards that would have no or impossible effects can be played to no effect.


Note about #5: this allows allocating 4 points to the opposing side when playing KRC or 6 points when playing Reckless Agitation.

Note about #6: this is useful when playing multiple games (eg, best of 3 victory points). When playing multiple games, sides are allowed to collaboratively tune decks before games.
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20 Sep 2015 14:49 #73255 by jamesatzephyr

Not sure what rules I would start with, maybe deck min size of 40 – max size of 60, of course certain cards would need banned in this two player format, such as deflection, sense dep, nightmare curse, brain wash, pentex, certain crypt cards Unna ect


If you add Soul Gem to that list, Turbo decks possibly go away too.

Of the remaining "normal" decks, though, possibly the biggest problem is combat generally. Do you want to ban all rush cards? In two player V:TES, if I can obliterate your minions, I have no predator and no prey. It abolishes one of the most significant intended(*) balancing factors in the game - if I go all out on you, I can leave myself exposed to my predator, and I probably don't want to give my grand-prey a free ride. And in terms of deck building, if I can reliably obliterate my prey, I may well have a difficult time actually ousting them while my predator eats me - stacking a deck with rushes and combat means I probably have a lot less by way of bleeding/ousting or bloating/defence. Not a problem in two player - you're dead, so I can take as many turns as I need to oust you. If vampires go into torpor, you could perhaps incorporate some sort of self-healing mechanism - but that's hard to do if vampires get burned. But I'd be concerned that in many two player formats, it essentially turns into a game of Hearthstone where you flip out your new dude, and I kill it, and then kill you while the playing field is empty. If you ban all rush cards, intercept walls could try something similar.


Thematically, voting loses most of its flavour. No negotiation. No thinking about whether you want to piss off that deck that can make your life trickier.



(*) Because it relies on people, it doesn't always work. But it's intended this way.
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20 Sep 2015 15:37 #73257 by Ashur
Replied by Ashur on topic Re: 2 Player VTES Rules
I´ve thought of this many times over the years, and I really think 2-player Vtes is a bad idea. Even the "shared pool" variant. It just gets weird.

"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

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20 Sep 2015 16:40 #73258 by Hakuron
Replied by Hakuron on topic Re: 2 Player VTES Rules
In my opinion two-player V:tES would actually not be V:tES.

And I wonder if Ben forgot to highlight the "irony button" when suggesting to select cards for two-player V:tES ...
:unsure:

National Coordinator Germany
nc [dot] germany [at] magenta [dot] de

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20 Sep 2015 17:01 #73259 by TwoRazorReign

In my opinion two-player V:tES would actually not be V:tES.

And I wonder if Ben forgot to highlight the "irony button" when suggesting to select cards for two-player V:tES ...
:unsure:


As someone who has played a lot of 2-player VTES, it is very different than normal multiplayer VTES. But it is still a great game.

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