Card idea: Crisis and Riots
17 Aug 2011 16:28 #8418
by Boris The Blade
Replied by Boris The Blade on topic Re: Card idea: Crisis and Riots
Pun intended?Is the card balanced?

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17 Aug 2011 19:33 #8448
by Mael
It is a single card which simultaneously screws over a number of deck types at minimal cost to you, and with little chance of anyone preventing it (can't be blocked, suddened, etc)
It harms diversity in the game.
See post by Juggernaut for other things I agree with.
Replied by Mael on topic Re: Card idea: Crisis and Riots
NoName: Crisis and Riots
Cardtype: Event
Any Methuselah may burn 2 pool as a master phase action to burn this card and make each Methuselah (going clockwise) choose up to 2 allies he or she controls then burn the rest, and burn equipments, locations, and retainers the same way.
"I took all I could save. Leonardo didn't make it I fear." - Isabel Giovanni
Is the card balanced?
It is a single card which simultaneously screws over a number of deck types at minimal cost to you, and with little chance of anyone preventing it (can't be blocked, suddened, etc)
NoIs the card interesting?
It harms diversity in the game.
I do, we don'tI don't care whether we "need" the card or not

See post by Juggernaut for other things I agree with.
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18 Aug 2011 04:48 #8469
by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Card idea: Crisis and Riots
We should ban all Gehenna events if we follow your logic. Tell me the difference between Crisis and Riots and Veil of Darkness or Slow Withering then (and the latter last until game ends, which is worse).
NoName: Crisis and Riots
Cardtype: Event
Any Methuselah may burn 2 pool as a master phase action to burn this card and make each Methuselah (going clockwise) choose up to 2 allies he or she controls then burn the rest, and burn equipments, locations, and retainers the same way.
"I took all I could save. Leonardo didn't make it I fear." - Isabel Giovanni
Is the card balanced?
It is a single card which simultaneously screws over a number of deck types at minimal cost to you, and with little chance of anyone preventing it (can't be blocked, suddened, etc)
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18 Aug 2011 04:58 #8470
by Juggernaut1981




Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Card idea: Crisis and Riots
Veil of Darkness and Slow Withering don't absolutely screw every deck. They hamstring the decks, they make it harder for them to operate.
Those Events don't OBLITERATE other strategies. It's a VERY unbalanced card (particularly in the way it works on everyone's strategy).
Those Events don't OBLITERATE other strategies. It's a VERY unbalanced card (particularly in the way it works on everyone's strategy).





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18 Aug 2011 06:54 #8478
by Ankha
(BTW, Centralized Background Check "obliterates" Concealed Guns deck, but no one complains. And those decks are still played.)
I don't think the card "obliterates" other strategies (see below). Even if it were the case, is it bad? It will not make any deck become predominent, and would reduce the number of deck relying on too many copies of the same 1 card, leading to other decks less monomaniac. I don't think it would reduce the diversity of decks, not more than Peace Treaty or Kindred Segregation do. And with fewer cards in play, the game should run more smoothly
For most decks, this card will have no effect. You'll rarely have more than 2 allies (say Carlton and Mylan), more than 2 location (let's say a Hunting Ground), more than 2 equipments (Bowl + Ivory?) etc.
A Shambling deck would be left with 2 of them, which can be a pain but can be triggered by the player itself, before playing some more.
Some decks will be hurt more badly:
- a Nephandus deck will lose much more cause they cost pool
- so would be a War Ghoul deck
- an animalism wall
- a full-camera phone deck
- an imbued
- a Guillaume Giovanni deck
The card can be nerfed a bit if you find it too effective. For example:
Name: Crisis and Riots
Cardtype: Event
During each Methuselah's untap phase, he or she must choose X allies he or she controls then pay X-2 pool and burn the rest. Burn equipments, locations, and retainers the same way.
During your master phase, burn this card if a total of 5 cards or more have been burned or 10 pool or more have been paid this way.
"I took all I could save. Leonardo didn't make it I fear." - Isabel Giovanni
Anyway, I understand some people wants new cards that doesn't affect their current decks but opens new strategies (but I think it's a very conservative approach).
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Card idea: Crisis and Riots
Veil of Darkness also "screws over a number of deck types at minimal cost to you, and with little chance of anyone preventing it (can't be blocked, suddened, etc)".It is a single card which simultaneously screws over a number of deck types at minimal cost to you, and with little chance of anyone preventing it (can't be blocked, suddened, etc)
This is more radical.Those Events don't OBLITERATE other strategies. It's a VERY unbalanced card (particularly in the way it works on everyone's strategy).
(BTW, Centralized Background Check "obliterates" Concealed Guns deck, but no one complains. And those decks are still played.)
I don't think the card "obliterates" other strategies (see below). Even if it were the case, is it bad? It will not make any deck become predominent, and would reduce the number of deck relying on too many copies of the same 1 card, leading to other decks less monomaniac. I don't think it would reduce the diversity of decks, not more than Peace Treaty or Kindred Segregation do. And with fewer cards in play, the game should run more smoothly

For most decks, this card will have no effect. You'll rarely have more than 2 allies (say Carlton and Mylan), more than 2 location (let's say a Hunting Ground), more than 2 equipments (Bowl + Ivory?) etc.
A Shambling deck would be left with 2 of them, which can be a pain but can be triggered by the player itself, before playing some more.
Some decks will be hurt more badly:
- a Nephandus deck will lose much more cause they cost pool
- so would be a War Ghoul deck
- an animalism wall
- a full-camera phone deck
- an imbued
- a Guillaume Giovanni deck

The card can be nerfed a bit if you find it too effective. For example:
Name: Crisis and Riots
Cardtype: Event
During each Methuselah's untap phase, he or she must choose X allies he or she controls then pay X-2 pool and burn the rest. Burn equipments, locations, and retainers the same way.
During your master phase, burn this card if a total of 5 cards or more have been burned or 10 pool or more have been paid this way.
"I took all I could save. Leonardo didn't make it I fear." - Isabel Giovanni
Anyway, I understand some people wants new cards that doesn't affect their current decks but opens new strategies (but I think it's a very conservative approach).
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18 Aug 2011 07:11 - 18 Aug 2011 07:12 #8480
by Mael
And speaking of opportunity cost, both of those cards are ones that will seriously hamper your own deck unless you build it specifically to avoid that. You can't just throw them into any vote, stealth bleed, or rush combat deck without making massive changes to the deck. You can with your card.
+ what Juggernaut said.
Replied by Mael on topic Re: Card idea: Crisis and Riots
"Do not replace as long as this card is in play" is a significant cost. "Do not replace until a vampire commits diablerie." is slightly less harse, but is often not something you can control. The slow withering also "Requires at least one other Gehenna card in play." which is not an insignificant opportunity cost.
We should ban all Gehenna events if we follow your logic. Tell me the difference between Crisis and Riots and Veil of Darkness or Slow Withering then (and the latter last until game ends, which is worse).It is a single card which simultaneously screws over a number of deck types at minimal cost to you, and with little chance of anyone preventing it (can't be blocked, suddened, etc)
And speaking of opportunity cost, both of those cards are ones that will seriously hamper your own deck unless you build it specifically to avoid that. You can't just throw them into any vote, stealth bleed, or rush combat deck without making massive changes to the deck. You can with your card.
+ what Juggernaut said.
Last edit: 18 Aug 2011 07:12 by Mael.
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