compress Musings regarding Lilith's Blessing

03 Mar 2011 16:53 - 03 Mar 2011 16:57 #2040 by Drain
As I parsed the manyfold ban/errata/incinerate threads that have made up much of our discussion rethoric regarding VTES in these last few months I pretty much vowed not to get involved. Part out of a personal perspective that the game is pretty much fine as it is and part out of thinking that the discussion of these topics online is not what ultimately gets things changed.

Yet, and given all that, I do believe in food for thought and think that a recent pattern has emerged in VTES deckbuilding. One that merits some reflexion, if not intervention.

I'm talking about the recurrent appearances by the master card Lilith's Blessing.

It appeared to me at first that it was a fine addition to the cardpool, a master card that could actually compete for the ever limited slots in that section of decks.

Upon further consideration and actual proof-gathering, it has started to become apparent that the card is to be considered a staple in many decks from here on in. With some playgroups already enthusiastically embracing the card (I decided to write up this thread after reading the threads of the Finnish TWDs that were posted recently, upon finding that all four contained at least a copy of LB, and being different deck types between themselves, with different players at the wheel).

I understand that Lilith's Blessing was initially made to serve as the main cogwheel for a whole new sub-type of deck (Lilins/Bahari) and that, in that capacity, it should not be hindered by the Unique keyword, seeing how two players at a given table should both be able to play their deck's faction without the disturbance of contestation (see how Twilight Camp was made non-unique, despite the fact that Seattle Committee is unique).

That reality may now never come to pass, however sad this fact may be. And what we're left with is a premium blood-gain tool that anyone can and should use.

I don't think that the card is broken or even overpowered. I just think that it is too easy a play, and fits the classic definition of a Unique card. Is it good enough for multiple players to wish to include it in multiples in a given deck and to be willing to pay a contestation? Then make it unique.

Not being unique means that the playing field can get saturated with the card due to the absence of negative consequences for including it. The one other comparative example I can recall is that of Dreams, since it is a unique but transient card and extremely powerful to boot.

Share your thoughts on this. I reinforce that I have no problem with the card per-se and have used it on occasion in my decks. It's just that it seems to me like the card could be re-balanced for an extremely low opportunity cost and that designer-intent has gotten the better of balance due to the circumstances.


Drain
Last edit: 03 Mar 2011 16:57 by Drain.
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03 Mar 2011 17:31 #2043 by brandonsantacruz
The card is very strong, but not as strong as I originally thought. Non-trifle master cards that cost a pool, especially ones that usually can't be used the turn they come out, have their own opportunity cost problems. If you are close to death, have masters that may allow you to oust in your hand, or cards that give you pool directly, they can easily take priority over LB.

From playing the card a decent amount, I think the card is best on mid-low caps who may run out of blood anyway. The Villein + LB trick is nice, but Villein + Giant's Blood is better.

Be careful when you fight the monsters, lest you become one.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

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03 Mar 2011 18:34 #2044 by Bell
It's a solid card which is perhaps a "no-brainer" to include in some deck types. I personally think it's costed appropriately and needs no change. It could potentially be of use to any deck (minus perhaps Imbued), but citing that as cause for change is similar to arguments in favor of banning Blood Doll a few years ago.

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03 Mar 2011 19:48 #2048 by Brum

The card is very strong, but not as strong as I originally thought. Non-trifle master cards that cost a pool, especially ones that usually can't be used the turn they come out, have their own opportunity cost problems. If you are close to death, have masters that may allow you to oust in your hand, or cards that give you pool directly, they can easily take priority over LB.

From playing the card a decent amount, I think the card is best on mid-low caps who may run out of blood anyway. The Villein + LB trick is nice, but Villein + Giant's Blood is better.


Agree with first paragraph.
Disagree with second, because that is only the case of big caps.

With mid-to-small caps you can pull your entire crypt for free, given that you get LB and one Villein per vampire. Opportunity cost increases allot compared to one Villein + GB per game.
Very strong in decks that don't use lots of blood from the vampires (ANI combat, DEM OBF, etc.) or decks that can refill their vampires easily.
Also, the possibility to add a Master Discipline gives way to rearranging the crypts, many times lowering the average caps of certain decks.
Since it is not Unique, if you get multiple copies, you can still play them.

The card must have been well though. If we had a new Bahari mechanic, like the card was built for, it would only add value to it.

I like it allot, but I think it is fine the way it is.

Cheers!
Tiago

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03 Mar 2011 20:33 #2049 by Lönkka
I also think that the card is a no-brainer and that it is especially good for weenies (say 3 caps with dominate -Influence your vamp out, Deflect and Bleed with Govern + Conditioning. Refill the next turn with Lilith and keep on bleeding right away!).

I feel that the card should've been better as a specific tournament related card only instead of normal promo. It is way too easy to use in almost any deck and gives weenies a humongous boost that they didn't really need (I got to say that I like playing with weeneis). Heh, it is kinda like Heart of Cheating for master cards if you will...

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03 Mar 2011 21:10 - 03 Mar 2011 21:11 #2050 by Hakuron
I wondered about the fact that it took Lilith's Blessing so long to enter the TWDA ... It is a very strong card, but I don't think that it needs adjustment.
I see Lilith's Blessing in Decks that use e.g. The Coven and Jake Washington as quick blood re-gain and, of course, in combination with Villein, lots of Villeins (if you decide to play Bigcaps along with Villein, then Lilith's Blessing really IS a no-brainer, and a threat to the whole table, staring at a gain of at least 20 pool per game).
In fact, I like this card a lot, and am waiting for the first deck that makes abuse of it with weenie-tech for the win! ;)

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Last edit: 03 Mar 2011 21:11 by Hakuron.

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