file What is the Ultimate Effect on VTES with PoD (Print on Demand) Not Occurring?

24 Sep 2013 17:47 #54337 by RoddimusPrime
For the immediate and foreseeable future Vampire the Eternal Struggle has lost hope in Print on Demand. With PoD not happening, we have been given a green light for a PDF release of the first VEKN created set. Of course if you want to play with these cards there is a small price to pay in having to sleeve the "cards." It makes sense to me. Even if you could print them on similar card stock the ink color would be an issue. Basically, you could more than likely tell the cards apart from other printed cards.

So now with the PDF set on the horizon, it seems that will be the way of things for now. At some point we will probably see another PDF set if all goes well. So not entirely unlike another "dead" CCG Star Trek.

However, with the last champion of hope Print on Demand gone, do we think this will have any negative backlash and more consequently another exodus of players? You could say to wait until mid 2014 when the Deckmaster Mechanics are gone, but there is still a large issue of art, etc. to tackle. And that isn't cheap. It's not like with Star Trek where you can take images from a show/movie and call it a day. I suppose a strict text based card could exist. But, while an option, it's not an overly attractive one.

I doubt VTES will ever be truly dead as there will always be people who play it and some core groups that may be likely to remain. It doesn't take much for a fledgling group or small group to crumble though. Or at the very least make playing the game a much more limited occurrence.

What do you guys (and girls) think? Do you know of several people who were vesting their judgement on the success or lack thereof on PoD? It's no secret that since VTES has went into torpor for a second time that there has been a plethora of people who have quit or have been unable to play without a group. And many stores no longer support the players if they have no product to sell (and they are arguably right). Or perhaps will the fringe players exit leaving a fairly stable group of players we can expect to carry on for quite some time?

Very curious to see your thoughts and reactions. I am in no way rushing VTES to a new kind of grave, but have yet to hear what people think the effect might be, if any. It should be said that I personally play much less now and at this point mainly around Origins/NAC. But, I still keep an interest and eye on the activity of VTES and VEKN.

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24 Sep 2013 18:25 #54338 by ICL
What do I think other players will do? I gave up on trying to judge those things.

For me, nothing has changed. I've been through a time when V:TES was no longer being published before. Now, if it got published again, would that be like the growth after Sabbat War? Maybe. I'm just fine with playing the game as is with its massive number of expansions.
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24 Sep 2013 18:47 - 24 Sep 2013 18:59 #54339 by Damnans

[...] but there is still a large issue of art, etc. to tackle. And that isn't cheap.


I think art could easily be funded via a Kickstarter project, where backers could get special rewards like their likeness on a card, or first dibs on the purchase of an original illustration, or anything else we can thing of.

Besides, I know a few artists that could create art for free.

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Last edit: 24 Sep 2013 18:59 by Damnans.
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24 Sep 2013 20:44 #54341 by ReverendRevolver
Rodd, i know you've been out of things lately, but yes, another set is beimg planned after this one, focusing on indy clans plus the gangrel.

Overall, a few players will like pdf cards finally coming out, but a huge number of them will be very dismayed by pod being shelved. As for me, id rather learn the new sets were going to take longer but pod was a go for next month. Pod was our entire new playr acquisistion tactic when you get down to it. Pod was how we were going to get staple cards into peoples hands. Now thats gone, but a large part of our playerbase will not be able to play optimal decks.

Pdf cards never excited me that much until pod became part of the equation. I appreciate the work put into the sets, but it saddens me that there wont be real cards after all that work. I sleeved color proxies in mtg. Alot. Its howi tested decks before investimg in pricey cards. Sleeving pieces of paper will never be the same as having a real card. I dont like always sleeving in vtes even.

So, generally, cool theres new cards, cool theres an answer. But im not going to get new players, or be super enthused about new decks, because staple cards are still limited, and i dont care as much because of it.

I am where i would be without danse. No cheap copies of cards i want, stagnant for my deck building, and pod is off the table.

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24 Sep 2013 22:26 - 24 Sep 2013 22:28 #54343 by RoddimusPrime

Rodd, i know you've been out of things lately, but yes, another set is beimg planned after this one, focusing on indy clans plus the gangrel.

Overall, a few players will like pdf cards finally coming out, but a huge number of them will be very dismayed by pod being shelved. As for me, id rather learn the new sets were going to take longer but pod was a go for next month. Pod was our entire new playr acquisistion tactic when you get down to it. Pod was how we were going to get staple cards into peoples hands. Now thats gone, but a large part of our playerbase will not be able to play optimal decks.

Pdf cards never excited me that much until pod became part of the equation. I appreciate the work put into the sets, but it saddens me that there wont be real cards after all that work. I sleeved color proxies in mtg. Alot. Its howi tested decks before investimg in pricey cards. Sleeving pieces of paper will never be the same as having a real card. I dont like always sleeving in vtes even.

So, generally, cool theres new cards, cool theres an answer. But im not going to get new players, or be super enthused about new decks, because staple cards are still limited, and i dont care as much because of it.

I am where i would be without danse. No cheap copies of cards i want, stagnant for my deck building, and pod is off the table.


That is definitely what concerns me the most. Highly priced cards remain highly priced. Hard to acquire cards remain hard to acquire. No incentive via constructed decks available for stores to buy and thus no incentive to host VTES players. And of course this all means attracting new players is quite hard. Telling someone you can have a few cards out of the local excess cards and they will have to find everything else on ebay is a bit far fetched for most people.

So yes, this should be disconcerting for the existing player base trying to flesh out a collection with price and accessibility being a problem. Given what most players wanted at one point more than anything was new players, this also can harm some of the existing base.

I did check out ebay and it definitely has lost various cards as well as high prices for many other buy it now cards. Auctions have definitely reduced in number.

I would really prefer a game to not be restricted by such things even if there is a rarity system. But, that is what one must accept at this point.

Again, hard to attract new players.

I do know about the new independent set, but I presume that unless things change it will be another PDF set. Which is better than no set.
Last edit: 24 Sep 2013 22:28 by RoddimusPrime.
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24 Sep 2013 22:28 - 24 Sep 2013 22:31 #54344 by CalibanX
I guess new paper-sleeve cards are better than no new cards at all. It's hard to gauge until we've seen the cards. Do they offer new directions for combat? If the new cards open up the game from some of it's stagnant ways, I think players will be enthusiastic about getting & using the cards even if they are only "paper" cards. I'd probably glue them to copies of old cards I'm not using to give them a better "feel" in the sleeve.
Last edit: 24 Sep 2013 22:31 by CalibanX.

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