file Vampire reboot more likely than new sets?

10 Nov 2015 10:13 #74196 by alek
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There is a lot of players that want to play vtes


Is there, really?
I am not so sure.
The announcement of WW being bought by Paradox attracted about 3500 non-unique views. I don't know into how many unique views it translates, but judging by myself, I clicked on that topic 10 times or so, which would mean about 300 similar people worldwide?
I don't see any heated discussion about the recent news, anticipation... - just a few people discussing IP technicalities.
Judging by TWDA, there are about 4 tournaments a month worldwide (and by worldwide, I mean "in Brazil" :))), with average attendance of 10 players.
Lackey as the only serious way of playing VTES online attracts about 8-10 (same) players each evening, on a good day.

I mean yeah, there are people which probably still take VTES seriously, like this guy:


but...

All of those are true but internet sources that you mentioned give very partial data. F.e.:
1. TWDA - in 2014 in Poland 11 tournaments were organized, only one was raported in TWDA. In 2015 9 tournaments were organized so far (apart from EC) - only 4 were reported in TWDA.
2. There is not a lot to discuss about Paradox yet, as there is nothing concrete appointed which concerns precisely vtes. WoD fans and vtes fans are not exacly same people (some are both of course) so it's not that big of a news for vtes players.
3. Majority of vtes players are not active on this forum.
4. Majority of vtes players don't want to play it online.

It's very possible that new WoD game would have a bigger audience than old vtes thanx to new players. At the same time a lot of old time vtes players would just stop playing as they wouldn't be interested in new game at all. That's at least what a lot of players are saying.

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10 Nov 2015 10:26 - 10 Nov 2015 10:28 #74197 by Ashur
I strongly disagree with this. On the contrary, I am surprised with VTES durability as a "dead" game. It has been 6 years, and the hardcore players are still as dedicated as ever. EC attendance is down just a bit (vtesec2015.wordpress.com/2015/09/06/attendance-of-vtes-european-championships-2008-to-2015/)

Also prices for cards on Ebay and otherwise are very, very high.

Maybe you should quit bashing this game and instead post something more constructive?

"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
Last edit: 10 Nov 2015 10:28 by Ashur.

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10 Nov 2015 11:41 #74199 by pivokrevnik

Maybe you should quit bashing this game and instead post something more constructive?


Well I consider my stance constructive. I would love to be proven otherwise and I am sorry you don't like it.

I have seen player base dwindle even before WW abandoned the game - that's why they abandoned it in the first place... Absence of players is a problem, not shortage of cards or absence of a publisher.

Yes, there a sought after singles selling for a lot on eBay. But then again sometime somewhere someone will buy pretty much anything on eBay. Like a signed air guitar or whatnot.

There are also people giving up collections for free or almost for free.
6 years after going out of print there are many VTES packed products which are not even sold out - this also doesn't look too well for a potential publisher you know.

Yeah, a small set full of reprints of Deep Song, Enkil Cog, Eyes of Argus etc. would probably sell well. Would that spark a long-term VTES ressurection though?

In fact in our community we had problems finding newbies willing to play even for FREE - myself I gifted almost my whole card collection to the "comunnity" to make decks for beginners, with little avail. There are many people like me who would happily gift or long-term lend whole decks to anybody, if it helped influx of players, but there is simply no demand.

I repeat once more, I would love to be proven otherwise. I don't want to troll, I love VTES. I appreciate VEKN effort.
But I cannot help it, I feel many of the local posts to be completely delusional about the game potential and atractiveness to a potential publisher. Even as a very niche game.

If you like being constructive, find a way how in year 2015 attract new players to an almost strictly offline (sic!) game, which has a strong kingmaker syndrome, needs 2+ hours of time for a single game and 4-5 very dedicated and experienced gamers of very similar skill (see the kingmaker syndrome part).

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10 Nov 2015 11:44 - 10 Nov 2015 22:24 #74200 by BenPeal

I strongly disagree with this. On the contrary, I am surprised with VTES durability as a "dead" game. It has been 6 years, and the hardcore players are still as dedicated as ever. EC attendance is down just a bit (vtesec2015.wordpress.com/2015/09/06/attendance-of-vtes-european-championships-2008-to-2015/)

Also prices for cards on Ebay and otherwise are very, very high.

Maybe you should quit bashing this game and instead post something more constructive?


I don't think it's bashing the game to discuss the problems with V:TES. I'm of the opinion that V:TES does have a bunch of problems. I'm also of the opinion that the list of what is right about V:TES is considerably longer than what's wrong with it, which has led to the longevity you mention.

If Paradox/Swedish White Wolf does end up developing concrete plans for V:TES - and I've had no discussions with them, so this is purly speculation on my part - I think one of two things will happen:

- White Wolf relaunches the World of Darkness in their "One World of Darkness" mold and relaunches V:TES with the updated setting. V:TES ends up getting some amount of an overhaul or renovation in terms of rules, mechanics, and card base, but ultimately is still V:TES as we know it.

- White Wolf relaunches the World of Darkness in their "One World of Darkness" mold and makes a brand new CCG that is better able to incorporate all of the WOD games, allowing for Garou and Mages (and possibly others) as playable factions. It is clearly not V:TES as we know it, and hopefully it is good.

White Wolf could just continue on with V:TES as it currently exists. It might even be the easiest thing for them. I just get the feeling - and again, this is purely speculation - that it won't fit their vision of "One World of Darkness".
Last edit: 10 Nov 2015 22:24 by BenPeal.
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10 Nov 2015 12:26 #74202 by BenPeal

But I cannot help it, I feel many of the local posts to be completely delusional about the game potential and atractiveness to a potential publisher. Even as a very niche game.


At the request of a publisher, OneBookShelf.com, I contracted a graphic designer to create a product mock-up for the publisher's business proposal to Wizards of the Coast to acquire the rights to publish V:TES. OneBookShelf.com also fully prepared a Kickstarter campaign such that If the rights from Wizards and CCP were acquired, the Kickstarter for V:TES would have begun the very next day.

This isn't delusion. This isn't rumor. This is first-hand experience and activity as a result of a publisher's interest in V:TES. OneBookShelf.com didn't walk away from it. Wizards said no. Now the ball's in Paradox's hands.
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10 Nov 2015 13:19 - 10 Nov 2015 13:57 #74203 by Ashur
First: This whole discussion disturbs me. I have no problem discussing alternations in VTES, or even a totally new game based on its greatness, without the weaker parts, but I think we should focus on what we have at this moment, and hope not FFG swoops in and make some stupid Pokemon version of WoD.

Well I consider my stance constructive. I would love to be proven otherwise and I am sorry you don't like it.

Constructive would be to construct a game, a complete, great game that is better than VTES. Post it here.

I have seen player base dwindle even before WW abandoned the game - that's why they abandoned it in the first place... Absence of players is a problem, not shortage of cards or absence of a publisher.

I disagree. The main reason we have had problem recruiting players is that they can no longer buy starters and boosters. Also some people won´t even consider playing a “dead” game.

Yes, there a sought after singles selling for a lot on eBay. But then again sometime somewhere someone will buy pretty much anything on eBay. Like a signed air guitar or whatnot.

Have you tried buying cards on Ebay recently? I feel that even not really great rares are sold for 1-2 euro. That´s pretty weird.

There are also people giving up collections for free or almost for free.
6 years after going out of print there are many VTES packed products which are not even sold out - this also doesn't look too well for a potential publisher you know.

Are you surprised that NoR or KoEK are not completely sold out? Those sets sucked. And the next time someone wants to give a way a (decent) collection for free, please PM me.

Yeah, a small set full of reprints of Deep Song, Enkil Cog, Eyes of Argus etc. would probably sell well. Would that spark a long-term VTES ressurection though?

This is exactly what would be a great way to start. The 5-deck set in a kickstarter, with some “chase cards” (1 Enkil Cog, some Villeins and so on) would sell shitloads. That _would_ spark the resurrection. I would also like to see the VEKN-created sets in physical form. After that we can discuss the future.

In fact in our community we had problems finding newbies willing to play even for FREE - myself I gifted almost my whole card collection to the "comunnity" to make decks for beginners, with little avail. There are many people like me who would happily gift or long-term lend whole decks to anybody, if it helped influx of players, but there is simply no demand.

Maybe we should not judge the world by your meta?

I repeat once more, I would love to be proven otherwise. I don't want to troll, I love VTES. I appreciate VEKN effort.
But I cannot help it, I feel many of the local posts to be completely delusional about the game potential and atractiveness to a potential publisher. Even as a very niche game.

Paradox have outed that they want to listen to current communities.

If you like being constructive, find a way how in year 2015 attract new players to an almost strictly offline (sic!) game, which has a strong kingmaker syndrome, needs 2+ hours of time for a single game and 4-5 very dedicated and experienced gamers of very similar skill (see the kingmaker syndrome part).

Yes, I have no problem with promoting this game. I´ve played it for 21 years and every single person I´ve explayed it to has instantly understood it´s charm. Hell, lots and lots of people play complex games like Twilight Struggle (boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12333/twilight-struggle) with no problem. Not every game has to sell like crack cocaine, I am confident Paradox understands that. Also, they have the whole IP to worry about. Doing stuff without thinking twice will disturb the IP.

"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
Last edit: 10 Nov 2015 13:57 by Ashur.
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