file Ghoul retainer

03 Mar 2017 08:52 #80973 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Ghoul retainer

The counters on Weighted Walking Stick would be burned if used by Ghoul Retainer. Therefore, "using" a weapon is considered a strike in certain situations. This is ambiguous.

The designer intent behind the Ghoul Retainer is to use unused weapons in an environmental way, that is:
- the effect can't be dodged (it's not a strike)
- the damage can't be prevented by cards that mention damage inflicted "by the opposing minion"

Otherwise, using the weapon (that is usually using the strike provided by a weapon) works the same way as if it had been used by the bearer.

I'll see if the cardtext can be made a bit clearer.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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03 Mar 2017 12:54 #80981 by TwoRazorReign
Replied by TwoRazorReign on topic Ghoul retainer
I'm aware of the designer intent. There isn't really a way to clarify how Ghoul Retainer should work the way the designers intended it without ambiguity being introduced in certain situations, as exemplified with Weighted Walking Stick. It may be time to start examining areas where some of the original designer intent should be changed or removed from the game, as was done for Seeds of Corruption. I firmly believe that Ghoul Retainer is one of these instances. The effect just doesn't fit into the game elegantly enough. And It's by far not the only example.
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29 Sep 2021 12:54 - 29 Sep 2021 13:14 #103381 by Thetmes
Replied by Thetmes on topic Ghoul retainer
Hi folks,

Playing a game in which vampire A has a ghoul retainer, in combat with vampire B.

Vampire B is long and strikes with his magnum. Vampire A wants his ghoul retainer to inflict 1 damage at long as in cardtext, the mention "inflicts 1 damage on the opposing minion each round of combat during normal strike resolution at close range" doesnt exists like with other retainers of that type (Wolf Companion, ...).

On the other hand all other retainers inflincting damage at long range specify clearly that they do ranged damages (Murder of Crows)...

Is a Ghoul retainer able to inflict damages at long range without any weapons?

Thanks for your help!

Ghoul Retainer
Ghoul with 2 life. 1 strength.

During the initial strike resolution each round, the Ghoul Retainer inflicts 1 damage or may use a weapon not used by the employing minion (or another retainer) that round (either before or after). This is not a strike, although it does count as "using" the weapon.

Murder of Crows
Animal with 1 life.

i Murder of Crows inflicts 1R damage on the opposing minion each round of combat during normal strike resolution.

I As above, but Murder of Crows has 2 life.

Wolf Companion
Animal with 2 life.

i When the minion with this retainer is in combat, the opposing minion takes 1 damage during strike resolution (if the range is close).

I As above, but Wolf Companion has 3 life.
Last edit: 29 Sep 2021 13:14 by Thetmes.

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29 Sep 2021 14:11 #103386 by Ankha
Replied by Ankha on topic Ghoul retainer

Playing a game in which vampire A has a ghoul retainer, in combat with vampire B.

Vampire B is long and strikes with his magnum. Vampire A wants his ghoul retainer to inflict 1 damage at long as in cardtext, the mention "inflicts 1 damage on the opposing minion each round of combat during normal strike resolution at close range" doesnt exists like with other retainers of that type (Wolf Companion, ...).

On the other hand all other retainers inflincting damage at long range specify clearly that they do ranged damages (Murder of Crows)...

Is a Ghoul retainer able to inflict damages at long range without any weapons?

No, it inflicts 1 damage during the strike resolution, which has no effect at long range.

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29 Sep 2021 14:25 #103387 by inm8
Replied by inm8 on topic Ghoul retainer
Damage inflicted as part of a strike resolution effect is affected by range, meaning if it isn´t explicitly R damage it is only inflicted when at close range. [LSJ 20020104]
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30 Sep 2021 08:07 - 30 Sep 2021 08:17 #103396 by Bloodartist
Replied by Bloodartist on topic Ghoul retainer

I'm aware of the designer intent. There isn't really a way to clarify how Ghoul Retainer should work the way the designers intended it without ambiguity being introduced in certain situations, as exemplified with Weighted Walking Stick. It may be time to start examining areas where some of the original designer intent should be changed or removed from the game, as was done for Seeds of Corruption. I firmly believe that Ghoul Retainer is one of these instances. The effect just doesn't fit into the game elegantly enough. And It's by far not the only example.


Hundred percent agreed. Some of the old clunky cards should be removed (either by ban or errata) so they don't cause rules issues in the future.

Suggestion for errata for ghoul retainer:

During the initial strike resolution each round, the Ghoul Retainer inflicts 1 damage or X ranged damage, where X is the amount of damage that one of the weapons equipped by the employer can inflict.

(Yes, this would make the retainer strictly better, but I think this is acceptable because it requires equipping both the weapon AND having the retainer in order to do anything. And retainer can't be equipped with concealed weapon.. Its still clunky to use, and requires use of a weapon better than magnum in order to give any actual benefit (since it costs 2 pool). This might make the retainer playable which is a goal in itself.. )

A heretic is a man who sees with his own eyes.
—Gotthold Ephraim Lessing



Last edit: 30 Sep 2021 08:17 by Bloodartist.

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