file Damage Resolution in the Rulebook

18 Sep 2019 06:51 - 18 Sep 2019 06:53 #97029 by Snodig
When the Damage Resolution "step" occurs, in relation to strikes and their resolution, seems ambiguously defined in the Rulebook (to me).

The Rulebook lays it out like this:
  1. Determine Strike
  2. Strike
    1. Choose Strike
    2. Resolve Strike
      1. Prevent Damage
      2. Heal Damage
  3. Press

It mentions that "when a minion or retains takes damage, he must burn blood or lose life, as appropriate (see Damage Resolution)".
However, it is not clear that any lingering effects from the strike (such as the Discipline restriction from Withering) is already in effect when doing Damage Resolution (prevention). It seems to suggest that these are simultaneous for effects that "do not affect current strike resolution", and thus Withering should take effect after the strike is done resolving (which is not the case).
I'm not sure what the best way to make it clear is, or even if it's unclear to others, but that's my take.

I'm also wondering why Press is listed before both Strike Effects and Damage Resolution, when it is clearly the last step of the (normal) combat sequence, and always after Damage Resolution, but that's more editorial than anything else.

Reference on Withering: www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/52036-withering
Last edit: 18 Sep 2019 06:53 by Snodig. Reason: Added Prevent and Heal Damge to the bullet list, added Withering reference.

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18 Sep 2019 07:37 - 18 Sep 2019 07:45 #97030 by jamesatzephyr

However, it is not clear that any lingering effects from the strike (such as the Discipline restriction from Withering) is already in effect when doing Damage Resolution (prevention).


When strikes resolve, you apply all the effects of the strike. (Unless you're dealing with a strike like Anesthetic Touch.) The effect of a steal blood strike is to move blood counters immediately. The effect of a destroy equipment strike is to destroy the equipment. The effect of a damage dealing strike is to apply the damage to the opponent - but that doesn't cause you to burn the blood immediately, you go off into damage handling to handle that.

This means that, for example, when you have blood stolen from Theft of Vitae, it gets transferred immediately when the strike is resolved (and any excess drains off) and that blood isn't there during damage prevention. It also means, for example, that if you have a Leather Jacket or some other damage prevention equipment, if it gets destroyed by Fractured Armament (superior), you don't have that damage prevention when you're in prevent damage.

It also means, for example, that if you take a "go to torpor" strike at the same time as some aggravated damage (e.g. Coma + Ghoul Retainer + Flamethrower), you are already wounded from Coma by the time you move into damage handling.

It seems to suggest that these are simultaneous for effects that "do not affect current strike resolution", and thus Withering should take effect after the strike is done resolving (which is not the case).


Nope. See section 6.4.3 of the rulebook: "Note that the effects of a strike are applied and then damage is resolved." We're applying the effects of Withering, including its card placement which triggers a discipline restriction. Do all of that. Have you applied all the effects of the strike yet? Okay. Now we move into damage resolution.
Last edit: 18 Sep 2019 07:45 by jamesatzephyr.

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18 Sep 2019 07:47 #97031 by Snodig
I wasn't unsure of it how it works, but thanks for being clear.
I missed the bit you quoted, which really resolves the problem and makes me look a fool (what a combo!).
Much appreciated.

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19 Sep 2019 06:21 #97038 by PetriWessman

Nope. See section 6.4.3 of the rulebook: "Note that the effects of a strike are applied and then damage is resolved." We're applying the effects of Withering, including its card placement which triggers a discipline restriction. Do all of that. Have you applied all the effects of the strike yet? Okay. Now we move into damage resolution.


This makes me realize: playing superior Withering (" As :thn: above, and this minion cannot play cards requiring any Disciplines") means that the opponent cannot use disciplines during the current round damage resolution, phase. Right?

So:
- minion A strikes Withering at superior
- minion B strikes something other than S:CE / dodge
- minion B is now unable to prevent the hand strike damage from Withering using discipline cards

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19 Sep 2019 06:42 #97039 by Tadori

Nope. See section 6.4.3 of the rulebook: "Note that the effects of a strike are applied and then damage is resolved." We're applying the effects of Withering, including its card placement which triggers a discipline restriction. Do all of that. Have you applied all the effects of the strike yet? Okay. Now we move into damage resolution.


This makes me realize: playing superior Withering (" As :thn: above, and this minion cannot play cards requiring any Disciplines") means that the opponent cannot use disciplines during the current round damage resolution, phase. Right?

So:
- minion A strikes Withering at superior
- minion B strikes something other than S:CE / dodge
- minion B is now unable to prevent the hand strike damage from Withering using discipline cards


Correct.
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