file Finals are boring. Pt. 3: Rules for the finals

30 Oct 2012 19:08 #40038 by Decebalus
Most finals in VTES are boring. Nothing happens, every one sits on his ass and waits, that some other player makes a mistake. Mostly finals end with time-out. I have seen three finals at the EC 2012, all boring as hell. That is not the fault of the players, they tried their best to win. But it is a problem.

We have the best card game in the world and it has the worst finals, you can think about. In the finals VTES should show its potential and not its negative side. Think about it: Even if the whole world would be playing VTES, nobody would watch it at TV. We need finals at least as thrilling as poker.

I will offer three possible solutions to the problem in different threads and hope you will discuss them with me.

Problem 3: The rules of the finals
The tournament rules give the first play to the player who is first-seat, if the game times out. That makes it interesting for that player, to play slowly and defensively (and boring). It is in his interest to slow the game down.

Solution 3: Changed rules
We should really discuss some rules, to force the players in the finals to play aggressive and for the game win. Here are some suggestions. (I know they sound strange, but maybe thinking about them, you get some better ideas, what could be changed for a better game.)

- After one and a halve hour a Antediluvian Awakening is put into the game, ten minutes later it is raised to two pool loss, every ten minutes one more. That happens until only one player is left. (I don’t think these rule would help bloat deck, what seems obvious, because the rule would force a different and aggressive play.)

- If there is no GW in the finals, the 1st place goes to the sixth player. (He is innocent, that the final was boring. You would immediately see, that the first five player start playing agressive.)

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30 Oct 2012 19:58 #40042 by Jeff Kuta
A couple possible rules changes:

1) If at end of time, all players are tied at 0.5 VPs, the game continues until one methuselah is ousted. That methuselah's predator is the victor. This is kind of similar to how the game is played now, but it becomes sudden death after time is called.

2) If at end of time, all players are tied at 0.5 VPs, the winner is the player whose prey has the least amount of pool (not the first seeded player). This means that the only advantage enjoyed by the top seed is seating. Each player is then racing against all others, not just against the top seed.

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30 Oct 2012 20:18 #40043 by johannes

1) If at end of time, all players are tied at 0.5 VPs, the game continues until one methuselah is ousted. That methuselah's predator is the victor. This is kind of similar to how the game is played now, but it becomes sudden death after time is called.


Doesn´t solve the whole problem (there is a lot of 1,5 - 1,5 - 0,5) and is not very practical. What if you have to book a venue and the things drags for another hour?

2) If at end of time, all players are tied at 0.5 VPs, the winner is the player whose prey has the least amount of pool (not the first seeded player). This means that the only advantage enjoyed by the top seed is seating. Each player is then racing against all others, not just against the top seed.


So couple of seconds before the time limit I transfer 4 pool and my predator wins instead of my prey? Allows for ridiculous king making.

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30 Oct 2012 20:21 #40045 by johannes

- After one and a halve hour a Antediluvian Awakening is put into the game, ten minutes later it is raised to two pool loss, every ten minutes one more. That happens until only one player is left. (I don’t think these rule would help bloat deck, what seems obvious, because the rule would force a different and aggressive play.)


I wouldn´t encourage any solution that messes with actual game mechanics. It would just mean that after 1,5h you play a different game. Not necessarily more exciting and certainly favors vote decks a LOT.

- If there is no GW in the finals, the 1st place goes to the sixth player. (He is innocent, that the final was boring. You would immediately see, that the first five player start playing agressive.)


Interesting. However just awarding some player the win smells fishy to me as well. The second final with 6-10 was more interesting.

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30 Oct 2012 20:22 - 30 Oct 2012 20:22 #40046 by AaronC

A couple possible rules changes:

1) If at end of time, all players are tied at 0.5 VPs, the game continues until one methuselah is ousted. That methuselah's predator is the victor. This is kind of similar to how the game is played now, but it becomes sudden death after time is called.

2) If at end of time, all players are tied at 0.5 VPs, the winner is the player whose prey has the least amount of pool (not the first seeded player). This means that the only advantage enjoyed by the top seed is seating. Each player is then racing against all others, not just against the top seed.


These are really good ideas.

I really like #1 because of the extra excitement it could create in the final, although it could be difficult on some tournament schedules. It might be interesting to add that if no one is ousted by the end of two-and-a-half hours, no one wins the tournament.

I think I'll suggest to my casual group that we try it when we can.

I guess with #2, when more than one player is tied for lowest pool, you would use the seed of the appropriate predators to decide the winner.
Last edit: 30 Oct 2012 20:22 by AaronC.

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30 Oct 2012 20:24 - 30 Oct 2012 20:27 #40048 by Hakuron

A couple possible rules changes:

2) If at end of time, all players are tied at 0.5 VPs, the winner is the player whose prey has the least amount of pool (not the first seeded player). This means that the only advantage enjoyed by the top seed is seating. Each player is then racing against all others, not just against the top seed.


I do not like this idea, because this leads/might lead to players gathering pool instead of ousting their preys ... You would be a fool then to "dance on the edge" with only 1 to 5 pool while eagerly trying to go for a VP ...

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Last edit: 30 Oct 2012 20:27 by Hakuron.

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