Guide and Mentor questions

jamesatzephyr wrote:

Pascal wrote:

Mael wrote:

Hi,

If I have Guide and Mentor in play,
1) Can a vampire who already has an archetype on him search for (and fail to find) an archetype?

Yes, similarly to [LSJ 20031117] . You can't choose/find an archetype that couldn't be played on that vampire (which means you can't get an archetype if you already have one, but you can still perform the action).

So based on this conversation over here: vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-rules-questions/26588-guide-and-mentor#26680

it looks like we have two conflicting rulings.

Lord Ashton doesn't let you search for a discipline card, if you can't possibly find a legal one. But apparently here you can search for an archetype, even though you can't possibly find a legal one. (In both cases, it's "search" where you can potentially fail.)

It appears that the two rulings are in conflict.

Lord Ashton:
Independent: Any other Gangrel can search his or her controller's library for an Animalism, Fortitude or Protean Master: Discipline card and move it to himself or herself as a +1 stealth action

Guide and Mentor:
Put this card in play. A vampire you control may search your library for a master: archetype and move 1 blood from the bank and that card to himself or herself as a +1 stealth action that costs X pool where X is the number of copies of that card on minions you control (requirements and cost apply as normal).

The difference I see between both effects is that:
1/ Lord Ashton allows you to take an action to fetch a discipline card, and that's all
2/ Guide and Mentor allows you to take an action during which a/ you may fetch an archetype b/ you gain 1 blood

In case 2/, even if you don't get any archetype, you can still gain 1 blood.

Question is: if vampire V already has an archetype, can he still search your library and fail his search (in order to shuffle), or not? According to Lord Ashton's ruling, no. (This could be stupid in case new archetypes are created that allow multiple archetypes on the same vampire.)

I really think the ruling about Lord Ashton should be reversed. The limitation about discipline cards and superior level is written on the discipline card itself, not on Lord Ashton's special nor in the rules. So you should be able to search your library, fail to find a playable discipline card (either because you choose to, or because you already have superior ANI FOR PRO). Are players supposed to know the cardtext of cards that haven't been played or are not in play?