file Anathema x Tension in the Ranks

11 Oct 2011 15:45 #11830 by kleberjf
Hi there!

Imagine the follow situation:

The Methuselah “A” has 01 pool. His vampire enters in combat with “Rabbat, The Sewer Goddess” a vampire controlled by the Methuselah “B”. Rabbat has “Anathema”. On the first round of combat, as a strike, Rabbat goes to 0 blood and send the vampire controlled by the Methuselah “A” to torpor. So comes the question, what goes first, the Methuselah “A” loose his pool by the Tension effects or this Methuselah get the pool earned by the Anathema effects?

Tks,

Kleber Souza.

Tension in the Ranks
Type: Master
Unique master.
Put this card in play. Whenever a ready minion is burned or sent to torpor, his or her controller burns 1 pool. Any Methuselah can burn this card by discarding two master cards as a master phase action.

Anathema
Type: Political Action
Requires: prince,justicar
Requires a prince or justicar.
Choose a ready vampire. If the referendum is successful, put this card on that vampire. If the vampire with this card is reduced to zero blood in combat, he or she is burned, and the Methuselah controlling the opposing minion gains pool equal to the burned vampire's capacity.

Rabbat, The Sewer Goddess
Clan: Nosferatu (group 4)
Capacity: 7
Disciplines: ANI FOR OBF pot
Independent. Red List: Rabbat may send a vampire to torpor or burn an ally as a strike. If she hunts, you may move 1 of the blood she gains to your pool. She cannot take (D) actions or block actions that aren't directed at her or at a card on her.

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11 Oct 2011 20:08 - 11 Oct 2011 20:14 #11833 by Erol
Everything happens at the same time so the player stays alive with 5 pool.

edit: I know there is a ruling from LSJ that stats effects that trigger at same window happen simoultaneously.

:laso: :camarilla: :POT: :DOM: :DEM: :PRE: :cap8: - Prince of Karlsruhe, Germany
Last edit: 11 Oct 2011 20:14 by Erol.

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11 Oct 2011 21:39 #11835 by Juggernaut1981
At the point where Rabbat declares a strike which reduces her blood to 0, she immediately burns from Anathema. The combat ends. The controller of Rabbat burns 1 pool to Tensions in the Ranks. The controller of the vampire opposite Rabbat does not go to torpor (strikes were not resolved because Rabbat exploded before then) and the controller of the minion opposing Rabbat gains 7 pool.

So...
Meth A has 1 pool & Chump A
Meth B has 10 pool & Rabbat + Anathema.

After the situation described it will be:
Meth A has 8 pool & Chump A is ready.
Meth B has 9 pool.

(But IANPB)

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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11 Oct 2011 21:39 - 11 Oct 2011 22:15 #11836 by Adonai
I disagree with you Erol, and I do agree with Juggernaut1981, if that is the actual setup.

If Rabbat plays a card that costs her last blood, she burns immediately with no delay (and the card won't resolve, if it is something like Pushing the Limit).

The effects of two strikes don't happen at the same time when one is dealing damage and the other is Rabbat's strike, unless Rabbat is losing blood to a strike that is not damage.

Rabbat's effect (go to torpor) happens in the resolve strikes window.

Rabbat's blood loss from the opponents strike happens in the resolve damage window.

See also:
Complete Rules Reference
Section 6.4.3.b

Resolve strikes. [6.4.3.2]

Apply effects of strike(s). Effects are applied simultaneously if the strikes are both of the same type (from step a).
NOTE: Strikes are only effective at close range, by default. [6.4.3.2]

Prevent damage and then resolve any unprevented damage (VII).

VII.C.2.B - acting minion goes to torpor
VII.C.2.C - Rabbat is burned.

You always resolve the effect of the strike before dealing with the damage.

Now, if the acting minion played Theft of Vitae (or a similar strike) that resolves in VII.C.2.B, then the effects would be applied simultaneously, and the acting minions controller would order the effects.
Last edit: 11 Oct 2011 22:15 by Adonai.

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11 Oct 2011 21:44 #11837 by Juggernaut1981
I have to say, I've played too many Anathema decks to not know how it works. Nos Princes Hate You All is one of my favourites that uses Anathemas. Combined with Archons and ANI combat, you're usually schweeet for some nice pool gain from your prey or predator.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
The following user(s) said Thank You: drstrange26

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12 Oct 2011 06:24 #11845 by Ankha

On the first round of combat, as a strike, Rabbat goes to 0 blood

Could you indicate how she goes down to 0 blood? By taking 1 damage from the opponent's strike?

Now, if the acting minion played Theft of Vitae (or a similar strike) that resolves in VII.C.2.B, then the effects would be applied simultaneously, and the acting minions controller would order the effects.

No. Both strikes resolve simulteanously, there is no ordering involved.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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