Anathema x Tension in the Ranks
12 Oct 2011 06:59 #11847
by Juggernaut1981
Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
Replied by Juggernaut1981 on topic Re: Anathema x Tension in the Ranks
Thefts are actually always completed before taking damage.
For example:
A 6 cap with 5 blood plays Theft of Vitae at
. The opposing vampire has 2+ blood and makes a handstrike for 2. The vampire will gain the 2 blood, keeping 1 and losing 1 to the blood bank (full vampire), and then take the handstrike for 2 resulting in them ending that round with 4 blood.
For example:
A 6 cap with 5 blood plays Theft of Vitae at
. The opposing vampire has 2+ blood and makes a handstrike for 2. The vampire will gain the 2 blood, keeping 1 and losing 1 to the blood bank (full vampire), and then take the handstrike for 2 resulting in them ending that round with 4 blood. Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418
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12 Oct 2011 07:52 #11848
by Ankha
What you say may be true, depending on what you mean by "taking damage".
See rulebook 6.4.3:
Steal blood moves blood from the target to the stealing minion.
Hand strike inflicts damage.
*But* the fact that a minion burns blood for damage happens later, after the prevent damage step.
I maintain that there is no ordering of strike resolution left to either player.
Some strikes resolve first:
- combat ends
- first strike
Other strikes always resolve simulteanously.
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Anathema x Tension in the Ranks
I guess you're answering my post.Thefts are actually always completed before taking damage.
For example:
A 6 cap with 5 blood plays Theft of Vitae at
What you say may be true, depending on what you mean by "taking damage".
See rulebook 6.4.3:
To be precise, regular (= non-first strike non-combat ends) strikes resolve at the same time.Resolve Strike. The effects of the strikes from both minions are resolved simultaneously.
Steal blood moves blood from the target to the stealing minion.
Hand strike inflicts damage.
*But* the fact that a minion burns blood for damage happens later, after the prevent damage step.
Note that the effects of a strike are applied and then damage is resolved. This timing is important for some special strikes, such as steal blood (see Strike Effects, sec. 6.4.5).
I maintain that there is no ordering of strike resolution left to either player.
Some strikes resolve first:
- combat ends
- first strike
Other strikes always resolve simulteanously.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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12 Oct 2011 10:05 - 12 Oct 2011 10:06 #11859
by Ankha
) to the rulebook.
Strikes are resolved simulteanously.
Blood theft will move blood.
Damaging strike will assign damage (to be handled/queued).
Send to torpor sends to torpor.
The thing is that the combat isn't over while there's still things queued (such as healing the damage).
Minion A strike: send to torpor
Minion B strike: hand damage for 1
B is going to torpor. A has 1 damage to handle. Combat ends when A has finished handling its damage (at which point A ends with 1 less blood for example, and B ends in torpor).
Replied by Ankha on topic Re: Anathema x Tension in the Ranks
Though I agree with much of what you say, there's no need to add strike: send to torpor (or paralyze
You always resolve the effect of the strike before dealing with the damage.
This is actually not true for strike: send to torpor. The details of this strike should be added to the rules reference. According to this ruling from LSJ: groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/7d0124539875ebdb?hl=fr&lr=&ie=UTF-8 (Sorry don't know how to do the shortened version), a minion with a Wolf Companion who strikes with Coma to send to torpor will still have the Wolf Companion damage applied to her opponent. This ruling means that strike: send to torpor resolves after damage resolution and not before it, as other non-damaging strikes.
I agree that if Rabbat burns a blood to declare her strike, then the strikes don't resolve since the combat ends immediately because of Anathema during strike declaration and Meth A's vampire is therefore not sent to torpor.
If Rabbat loses the blood due to the opposing vampire's strike (which is probably what the OP meant), then her burning and the other vampire going to torpor happen at essentially the same time. Rabbat loses the blood when "each point of damage is resolved in turn" (step A of damage resolution) and the other vampire goes to torpor when you "check for vampires going to torpor or minions or retainers burning" (step B of damage resolution), based on the Coma ruling. Either Rabbat burns first in step A, or she burns and the opposing vampire is sent to torpor simultaneously in step B. Either way, Methusaleh A is saved from being ousted by the pool from Anathema.
) to the rulebook.Strikes are resolved simulteanously.
Blood theft will move blood.
Damaging strike will assign damage (to be handled/queued).
Send to torpor sends to torpor.
The thing is that the combat isn't over while there's still things queued (such as healing the damage).
Minion A strike: send to torpor
Minion B strike: hand damage for 1
B is going to torpor. A has 1 damage to handle. Combat ends when A has finished handling its damage (at which point A ends with 1 less blood for example, and B ends in torpor).
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
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12 Oct 2011 10:22 - 12 Oct 2011 10:24 #11860
by Jussi
----
Banging trashcans, breaking windows
We'll wake you up tonight
We like the good time, we scream and shout
And that's what fun's about
Replied by Jussi on topic Re: Anathema x Tension in the Ranks
Ankha ninjaed me. And he is right.
My explanation of same thing.
Strikes resolve simultaneously (unless they are S:CE or dealt with First Strike).
So, Rabbat's send to torpor and some other vampires hand damage is dealt at the same time (unless Rabbat strikes with first strike).
If a vampire with anathema in 1 blood uses a combat card which costs blood, that vampire is burned immediately, ending combat.
If there are pending effects that need to be resolved (for example, rabbat has struck "send to topor" strike and opposing vampire is still ready, that vampire still goes to torpor before ending combat).
In the first post, if Rabbat uses a card which has blood cost triggering anathema when choosing a strike or before that, Rabbat burns and combat ends.
If Rabbat uses a card which costs blood during strike resolution (damage prevention or claws), anathema is triggered and Rabbat burns. At this point, there are still pending strike effects (Rabbat's strike), which means that opposing vampire goes to torpor.
Rabbat burns to anathema and opposing minion goes to torpor at the same time, so controller of Rabbat loses one pool and controller of opposing minion gain anathema and lose one pool.
My explanation of same thing.
Strikes resolve simultaneously (unless they are S:CE or dealt with First Strike).
So, Rabbat's send to torpor and some other vampires hand damage is dealt at the same time (unless Rabbat strikes with first strike).
If a vampire with anathema in 1 blood uses a combat card which costs blood, that vampire is burned immediately, ending combat.
If there are pending effects that need to be resolved (for example, rabbat has struck "send to topor" strike and opposing vampire is still ready, that vampire still goes to torpor before ending combat).
In the first post, if Rabbat uses a card which has blood cost triggering anathema when choosing a strike or before that, Rabbat burns and combat ends.
If Rabbat uses a card which costs blood during strike resolution (damage prevention or claws), anathema is triggered and Rabbat burns. At this point, there are still pending strike effects (Rabbat's strike), which means that opposing vampire goes to torpor.
Rabbat burns to anathema and opposing minion goes to torpor at the same time, so controller of Rabbat loses one pool and controller of opposing minion gain anathema and lose one pool.
----
Banging trashcans, breaking windows
We'll wake you up tonight
We like the good time, we scream and shout
And that's what fun's about
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12 Oct 2011 16:17 #11875
by AaronC
Strike: send to torpor should be added to the rules reference, along with other strikes like steal blood and destroy equipment.
If a minion in combat is no longer ready, combat ends immediately. Since strike resolution and damage resolution happen at different times in combat, if a minion goes to torpor during strike resolution, combat should skip the damage resolution step. The only reason it doesn't work that way is because of LSJ's ruling on Coma and Wolf Companion that I referenced.
For the sake of clarity, the rules reference should explain that strike: send to torpor is resolved when damage is resolved.
Replied by AaronC on topic Re: Anathema x Tension in the Ranks
Though I agree with much of what you say, there's no need to add strike: send to torpor (or paralyze
Strikes are resolved simulteanously.
Blood theft will move blood.
Damaging strike will assign damage (to be handled/queued).
Send to torpor sends to torpor.
The thing is that the combat isn't over while there's still things queued (such as healing the damage).
Minion A strike: send to torpor
Minion B strike: hand damage for 1
B is going to torpor. A has 1 damage to handle. Combat ends when A has finished handling its damage (at which point A ends with 1 less blood for example, and B ends in torpor).
Strike: send to torpor should be added to the rules reference, along with other strikes like steal blood and destroy equipment.
If a minion in combat is no longer ready, combat ends immediately. Since strike resolution and damage resolution happen at different times in combat, if a minion goes to torpor during strike resolution, combat should skip the damage resolution step. The only reason it doesn't work that way is because of LSJ's ruling on Coma and Wolf Companion that I referenced.
For the sake of clarity, the rules reference should explain that strike: send to torpor is resolved when damage is resolved.
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