Rulings: Groundfighting

The other night this doubt came up during a game. This created me a doubt regarding the already posted rulings about Groundfighting:

Groundfighting
Type: Combat
Requires: anarch
Requires a ready anarch. Do not replace until after combat.
Maneuver or press or burn 1 blood to cancel a combat card played by the opposing minion that would restrict this anarch's choice of strikes this round as it is played.

Rarity: KMW:C

Rulings state:

Groundfighting:
Can cancel Drawing Out the Beast (or other "target cannot use equipment" card) if the target has a weapon. [LSJ 20050221]
Can cancel superior Thoughts Betrayed and Shape Mastery (when the latter is used to cancel a strike) [LSJ 20050222] [LSJ 20050223]
Cannot cancel maneuvering, setting range, burning blood, Scorpion Sting (or other "cannot be dodged" strikes, since the opposing minion is still free to attempt to dodge), Weakness, destroy/steal equipment/weapon effects, Withering, Fata Amria, [LSJ 20050221] [LSJ 20050221] [LSJ 20050223] [LSJ 20050223]
Cannot cancel restricting the ability to strike and/or gain additional strikes (e.g., Rigor Mortis, Lapse) [LSJ 20050221] [LSJ 20050222] [LSJ 20050223]

What worries me about this rulings is that Groundfighting "cannot cancel maneuvering, setting range..." but "can cancel DotB or other "target cannot use equipment" card) if the target has a weapon "

What happens in a combat where:
- Minion A (anarch) is equipped with Sniper Rifle/ Mark V
- Minion B sets the range to close using Shadow Step/ Selective Silence

Applying the current rulings, a Groundfighting cannot cancel the "set range" card, but i think if a similar criteria to DotB is applied, the "set range card" could be canceled because it "would restrict this anarch's choice of strikes this round" (since he is equipped with a "only usable at long range" weapon).

Comments plz!

Sniper Rifle
Weapon, gun.
2R damage each strike. Only usable at long range. If the bearer blocks an action, he or she may, before range is determined, set the range for the first round of the resulting combat to long; if he or she does so, skip the determine range step that round, and the bearer's initial strike that round must be with this weapon.

The sniper rifle itself restricts you to striking with it at long range.

Only if the target has a weapon? Seriously? That is a terrible ruling, one worthy of a reversal. Either DotB counts as restricting strikes or it does not, but it should not depend on the current game state, especially when there are 1000 ways to equip during combat. It makes things needlessly complicated and creates a bad precedent.

EDIT:

@Brandon: in the given example, the Sniper rifle was not used to set the range. (only 1 Set Range can be played per round).

miketheknife wrote:

What happens in a combat where:
- Minion A (anarch) is equipped with Sniper Rifle/ Mark V
- Minion B sets the range to close using Shadow Step/ Selective Silence

Groundfighting can't be played.

This sort of scenario - removing the ability for the opponent to play 'X-range only' strikes - was discussed in [LSJ 20050212]
(LSJ at >>, then John Flournoy at >, then LSJ again.)

The initial point (where setting range is 'not as clear') was that maneuvering was obviously not restricting strikes, because the other guy could maneuver back.

> > Setting range outright (or while the opposing minion is
> > somehow artificially restricted from maneuvering) is
> > not as clear, but doesn't directly restrict strikes.

> Adding to what LSJ said:

> Setting the range doesn't restrict your strike. Regardless of whether
> range is set to long or short, you can still make whatever strike you
> like - the fact that your Undead Strength won't hit your opponent at
> range doesn't mean that you can't play it. Strikes that say 'only
> usable at close' (or long) are restricted by their _own_ card text, not
> by the text of the card setting the range. Such a range-setting card
> would also have to say 'only long-range strikes may be made' (or close
> range as appropriate).

An apt description/rationale.

I was more thinking of already-in-play options, like Meat Hook's self
destructive special or Seren Sukardi's special, and examining those
in the light of the Drawing Out the Beast vs. Weapons angle.

> Think of it this way: the difference between being able to play an
> Undead Strength and a Blood Fury when range is set to long is that
> Blood Fury has a restriction in its own text, not because of card text
> in High Ground (or other set-range cards.)

Looks good.

Non-existant user wrote:

Only if the target has a weapon? Seriously? That is a terrible ruling, one worth of a reversal. Either DotB counts as restricting strikes or it does not, but it should not depend on the current game state, especially when there are 1000 ways to equip during combat. It makes things needlessly complicated and creates a bad precedent.

The ruling about DotB and Groundfighting wasn't a terrible ruling. It's not really a ruling at all - it's just reiterating that Groundfighting does exactly what it says it does.

Thus:
This anarch has a .44 Magnum.
Opposing vampire plays DotB.
Would DotB restrict this anarch's choice of strikes this round?
Yes - the anarch would not be able to strike with his .44 Magnum this round, which he would be able to if DotB were not played.
The third use of Groundfighting can therefore be played.

Completely logical. This is one case where LSJ said the card actually did what it says it does.

Aaron wrote:

Non-existant user wrote:

Only if the target has a weapon? Seriously? That is a terrible ruling, one worth of a reversal. Either DotB counts as restricting strikes or it does not, but it should not depend on the current game state, especially when there are 1000 ways to equip during combat. It makes things needlessly complicated and creates a bad precedent.

The ruling about DotB and Groundfighting wasn't a terrible ruling. It's not really a ruling at all - it's just reiterating that Groundfighting does exactly what it says it does.

Thus:
This anarch has a .44 Magnum.
Opposing vampire plays DotB.
Would DotB restrict this anarch's choice of strikes this round?
Yes - the anarch would not be able to strike with his .44 Magnum this round, which he would be able to if DotB were not played.
The third use of Groundfighting can therefore be played.

Completely logical. This is one case where LSJ said the card actually did what it says it does.

This is exactly what i mean, just replace some text:

This anarch has a .44 Magnum. Mark V
Opposing vampire plays DotB Shadow Step (to set to close range).
Would DotB Shadow Step restrict this anarch's choice of strikes this round?
Yes - the anarch would not be able to strike with his .44 Magnum Mark V this round, which he would be able to if DotB Shadow Step were not played (at least he would have the chance to maneuver).