Cleave and Dagger

If I play Cleave and then choose to throw a dagger (by using the text on the card making the damage ranged) - can I "get away" from having to burn the dagger at the end of the action? As in, is the "burn the melee weapon at the end of the action" an effect that I can order -before- the dagger returns to play?

Cleave

Choose a melee weapon this imbued has or spend 1 conviction to put this card on this imbued to represent a melee weapon that does strength damage each strike. This melee weapon inflicts +1 additional damage this action. If the opposing minion is (or becomes) immune to non-aggravated damage, he or she loses that immunity for handling damage from this weapon. Burn the melee weapon at the end of the action.

Dagger

Melee weapon. Cold iron.
You may put a second Dagger from your hand or ash heap on this minion when you equip this Dagger from your hand. Strike: strength+1 damage. Alternatively, strike: strength ranged damage and, after strike resolution, put this weapon out of play until the end of the action. Burn this weapon if any damage from it is prevented.

According to this ruling, you can avoid burning the Dagger.
groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/37ca181c9344679f
The ruling does feel weird imo though, since LSJ's answer seems to assume identical card texts on Baal's Bloody Talons and Cleave.

Since the Dagger is gone until the end of the action, there's no doubt at all that Baal's Bloody Talons would trigger before that (end of combat round is clearly before the end of the action). I don't see how you could be able to avoid triggering Cleave at the end of the action, after the Dagger returns though.
I don't really see the difference between the Dagger/Cleave case and the ruling for Anarch Revolt .


Name: Baal's Bloody Talons
Cardtype: Combat
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Quietus
Only usable before resolution of a melee weapon's strike.
[qui] The damage from this weapon's strikes is aggravated. Burn this weapon at the end of this round.
[QUI] As above, and this weapon inflicts an additional aggravated damage each strike.

as I would interpret this, when some effect happens "until phase X", it doesn't continue through phase X. for example, Malkavian Dementia returns control of the target before your untap phase, so you do not untap that vampire.

therefore, you can not order these effects. the Dagger must first return to play before the end of the action, then it is immediately burned by Cleave.

I don't think it will 'remember' it was meant to be burned anymore after it has been out of play in between. Just like how corporal reservoirs on a vampire descending to darkness don't remember anymore that they were tapped after the vampire comes back.

Klaital wrote:

I don't think it will 'remember' it was meant to be burned anymore after it has been out of play in between. Just like how corporal reservoirs on a vampire descending to darkness don't remember anymore that they were tapped after the vampire comes back.

Cards come into play untapped, unless something else is stated by card text. That has nothing to do with remembering. Either way though, I'm pretty sure cards remember everything unless they're burned and returned to play somehow.

The out-of-play part is confusing... if it's not for that, Haze should be perfectly right: Dagger can't avoid the effect which is triggered immmediately when the conditions are met.

Klaital what makes you think Corporal untaps after a Descending vamp comes back? I wouldn't think that out-of-play things (and cards on them) change a bit during they out-of-play period...