file The Jones, interrupting TV or not ?

18 May 2012 08:53 - 18 May 2012 08:55 #30678 by Reyda
the moonlight shines brightly. The old snake, against all expectations, is now cornered in a dead end alley. He knows the servants of the brujah are on its track. Is that footsteps he's hearing ? He's coming close. Fight might be inevitable...
Ok let's cut the crap :
Combat between two vampires.
Close range.
Acting declares hands for 1 (albeit he has the Jones in his hand)
younger blocking declares undead strength immediately followed by target vitals. (TV from now on)

At this point, Acting wants to play the Jones superior.
What happens ?
1- sounds legit : strike + TV is trumped and blocking has to choose another strike.
2- that's illegal : acting had to interrupt and tell blocking minion "wait, don't play TV, I cancel your strike" - and there's a problem because blocking has to take back TV in his hand, got his strike canceled, and can play TV on his new (probably cardless) strike.

So how can we judge this situation ? If blocking minion says "I let you play a card if you want", that is, giving the impulse, he cannot play TV anymore right ?

Rulemonger please ! :silly:

( reminder :
The Jones
Only usable in combat with an ally or younger vampire.
Strike: dodge, with an optional press, only usable to end combat.
Cancel the opposing minion's strike card as it is played. (No cost is paid, and the minion chooses another strike). A vampire may play only one The Jones at superior each round. )

Imagination is our only weapon in the war against reality -Jules de Gaultier
Last edit: 18 May 2012 08:55 by Reyda.

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18 May 2012 09:55 - 18 May 2012 09:58 #30682 by Ankha
I works exactly the same as for any card cancelled: cancellation effects must be played before any "as the X is announced". This is valid for actions, strikes etc.

Acting declares hands for 1 (albeit he has the Jones in his hand)
younger blocking declares undead strength immediately followed by target vitals. (TV from now on)

Opposing has played his TV too fast.

At this point, Acting wants to play the Jones superior.
What happens ?
1- sounds legit : strike + TV is trumped and blocking has to choose another strike.
2- that's illegal : acting had to interrupt and tell blocking minion "wait, don't play TV, I cancel your strike" - and there's a problem because blocking has to take back TV in his hand, got his strike canceled, and can play TV on his new (probably cardless) strike.

Option 2. Same as someone playing a Govern bleed + Seduction before anyone could DI the Govern.

So how can we judge this situation ? If blocking minion says "I let you play a card if you want", that is, giving the impulse, he cannot play TV anymore right ?

Cancellation has its own window and impulse.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Last edit: 18 May 2012 09:58 by Ankha.

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18 May 2012 11:41 #30686 by Juggernaut1981
I'd contest that advice Ankha...
All of the targets contain the first line of cardtext.

Target Vitals
Type: Combat
Aim. Play when choosing a strike.
If any damage from this strike is successfully inflicted on the opposing minion, he or she takes an additional 2 damage from this strike, and he or she cannot press this round. The opposing minion may discard two combat cards [COMBAT] to cancel this card. A minion may play only one aim each strike.

I would say that the T:V must be played at the point where you declare your strike. That is, before you replace any Strike card, you must also produce the T:V and declare it. I don't know if there is a 'window' where you could play the Jones.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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18 May 2012 11:56 #30687 by jamesatzephyr

I would say that the T:V must be played at the point where you declare your strike. That is, before you replace any Strike card, you must also produce the T:V and declare it. I don't know if there is a 'window' where you could play the Jones.


Incorrect.

[LSJ 20080214]

The Jones is played as the strike card is played (before the Target Vitals
is played). Like using DI to cancel a Govern with Seduction.

The following user(s) said Thank You: Ankha

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18 May 2012 12:01 #30688 by Ankha

I would say that the T:V must be played at the point where you declare your strike. That is, before you replace any Strike card, you must also produce the T:V and declare it. I don't know if there is a 'window' where you could play the Jones.


Incorrect.

[LSJ 20080214]

The Jones is played as the strike card is played (before the Target Vitals
is played). Like using DI to cancel a Govern with Seduction.

Thanks for the link, funny thing I picked up the same example as LSJ.

Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

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18 May 2012 12:04 #30689 by Boris The Blade
It would be clearer if the "As announced" window kept the same name across different cards.

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