file Restricted Vitae Clarification.

18 Oct 2012 05:30 #39401 by Pascal Bertrand

I don't feel this answers the question- what needs clarification is whether a vampire who is forced to hunt has to hunt from a younger vampire.

A vampire with no blood is not affected by the restriction on Restricted Vitae, as he must hunt, and as that restriction only affects vampire who do not have to hunt.

If there is no younger vampire, where does the vampire hunt from?

With Restricted Vitae in play, if you must hunt, you may perform any hunt action (as long as the requirements - target exists, for Restricted Vitae's hunt action - are met. If there are no younger vampire, you cannot take Restricted Vitae's hunt action.

The card text reads 'A vampire who must hunt may hunt by stealing a blood from a younger vampire as a D action instead of performing the usual hunt action.'

indicating the only hunt option is to hunt from a younger vampire.

Incorrect. It indicates that there is another option for hunts. But it's not the only option - regular hunt, or Abactor, or other hunt actions could be taken.

Similarly, Week of Nightmares card text says

'Ravnos get +1 bleed and +1 strength and do not hunt as normal. A Ravnos may steal a blood from another Ravnos as a +1 stealth hunt action.'

"do not hunt as normal" isn't really similar to "can only hunt in a specific situation, and when they can hunt, they have a new option.

If there are no Ravnos with blood left, would they then be allowed to hunt as normal? No, they hunt and stay tapped on 0 blood.

You probably haven't been playing a Revnos Embrace deck very often. The usual trick is to steal a blood (that's an action which targets a vampire, not a blood counter) from an empty vampire, or a vampire with 2 or more blood. This allows all your vampires with 1 blood to continue to bleed under Week of Nightmares.
Week of Nightmares allows stealing a blood from a vampire with no blood (just like Theft of Vitae is usable against a vampire with 0 blood).

Like Week of Nightmares, Restricted Vitae removes the 'normal hunt action',

No. It restricts the possibilities to use it.

leaving Vampires who must hunt the only hunt option of 'stealing a blood from a younger vampire as a action'.

No. It grants them a new option to hunt.

The emphasis of the card here is 'instead'- 'instead' indicates the normal hunt option is no longer available. If there are no younger vampires, they hunt but receive no blood.

"May ... instead" provides the new hunt option.

This would reflect the actual Gehenna event of Vampires only being satisfied by blood from other vampires. Otherwise, if Vampires can hunt as normal, what is the point of Restricted Vitae if you can't force other vampires to hunt from each other and create more chances for int/combat?

The point of Restricted Vitae is that vampires can only hunt when they must, which usually means when they have no blood.

The wording 'may' is the same as Week of Nightmares. No one claims that with 0 blood on Ravnos vampires, you can hunt as normal, since there is no alternative; why would you claim the same for Restricted Vitae?

Probably because Week of Nightmares reads "Ravnos[...] do not hunt as normal".

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18 Oct 2012 05:54 #39403 by Boris The Blade

Is there an LSJ ruling on this?

Why? Pascal is now in charge of the rules and his answers are as official as LSJ's were.
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18 Oct 2012 20:23 #39451 by Adyiss
This is slightly off topic, how does Loki's Gift interact with Restricted Vitae?

Loki's Gift
+1 stealth hunt action.
Gain 1 blood and this card. This vampire can burn this card and 1 blood to get +1 stealth. A vampire can have only one Loki's Gift.
(D) As above, and burn a blood from any vampire. This vampire may burn this card as above, or may burn it during a referendum to gain 2 votes.

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18 Oct 2012 21:09 - 19 Oct 2012 23:36 #39452 by Reyda

This is slightly off topic, how does Loki's Gift interact with Restricted Vitae?

the only interaction lies in the fact that you cannot play loki's gift if your vampire is not empty ( [except] if he is forced to hunt by, says, XTC laced blood)

That's all. It's a separate hunt action that has nothing to do with restricted vitae otherwise.

(edited for clarity; thanks Adyiss ! )

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Last edit: 19 Oct 2012 23:36 by Reyda.

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19 Oct 2012 01:42 #39455 by ReverendRevolver
So mandatory hunt actions can use abactor/lokis gift instead of the default action anytime I take a mandatory hunt?

I thought that but was told otherwise once.

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19 Oct 2012 03:53 - 19 Oct 2012 03:53 #39458 by Juggernaut1981

6.1.2. Hunt (+1 stealth)

Hunting is a vampire's means of satisfying his hunger for blood. Allies cannot take this action.

To have a vampire hunt, announce the action and tap the acting vampire. If the action is successful, move a blood counter to the acting vampire from the blood bank. If this causes the vampire's blood to exceed his blood capacity, then (as always) the excess is immediately returned to the blood bank. This action has a default +1 stealth (see Stealth and Intercept, sec. 6.2.2.2). Note that a ready vampire with no blood must hunt (and cannot take any action except the hunt action).

All that 6.1.2 requires is that a vampire must hunt (and cannot take any action but a hunt action) when it has no blood.

As long as the card says "Hunt action" (e.g. Loki's Gift, Abactor) then it can be used as a Mandatory Hunt action.

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Last edit: 19 Oct 2012 03:53 by Juggernaut1981.
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