file Restricted Vitae Clarification.

17 Oct 2012 14:50 - 17 Oct 2012 14:52 #39360 by ReverendRevolver
I'd say the may is the important word since instead is referencing the alternative action. if otherwise, it would say:
"Any vampire who is forced to hunt must hunt by stealing a blood from a younger vampire as a d action. if there are not younger vampires with blood, this minion attempts and taps, but does not recieve any blood. "

May gives the option and instead clarifies its an alternative.

definitely a card I have to re-read to understandthough.
Last edit: 17 Oct 2012 14:52 by ReverendRevolver.

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17 Oct 2012 16:59 - 17 Oct 2012 17:18 #39367 by Pascal Bertrand

Is there an LSJ ruling on this? Because the card text seems pretty clear, I.E.

A vampire who must hunt may hunt by stealing a blood from a younger vampire as a D action instead of the usual hunt action

The 'may' here does not indicate an alternative hunt option, 'instead' being the operative word, the only hunt option available being hunting from younger vampires, Just like the Week of Nightmares option, which also reads 'may'.

I'm just reading the card text as it implies. If it was clarified with 'may hunt by stealing a blood... in addition to the usual hunt action' this would be clear, but the card clearly doesn't read that way for a reason?

"May" is what gives you the option. I dont' think a ruling on" may" is needed here, and I don't think it was ever given.

Examples of such uses :
- Blood Doll
- Zoo Hunting Ground
- Aeron
- Agaitas
...
Last edit: 17 Oct 2012 17:18 by Pascal Bertrand.
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17 Oct 2012 18:06 #39372 by glaswanderer
"may" does not mean "must".

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17 Oct 2012 19:02 #39379 by Juggernaut1981

Is there an LSJ ruling on this? Because the card text seems pretty clear, I.E.

A vampire who must hunt may hunt by stealing a blood from a younger vampire as a D action instead of the usual hunt action

The 'may' here does not indicate an alternative hunt option, 'instead' being the operative word, the only hunt option available being hunting from younger vampires, Just like the Week of Nightmares option, which also reads 'may'.

I'm just reading the card text as it implies. If it was clarified with 'may hunt by stealing a blood... in addition to the usual hunt action' this would be clear, but the card clearly doesn't read that way for a reason?


Restricted Vitae doesn't prevent a normal cardless +1 stealth undirected hunt action; it does stop a vampire hunting unless it has a mandatory hunt action.
A vampire that has a mandatory hunt while Restricted Vitae is in play can choose the following options:
a) The normal cardless +1 stealth undirected hunt action
b) To use the hunt action provided by Restricted Vitae (as a (D) action on a younger vampire)
c) Some other hunt action (Abactor, Loki's Gift, etc)

Week of Nightmares forbids the normal cardless +1 stealth undirected hunt action; it gives ONE alternative to the cardless +1 stealth undirected hunt action on its card text. Usually a vampire only hunts via the cardless action but as I listed above, there are 'alternative hunt actions' that a Ravnos could use when Week of Nightmares is in play. The easiest example is Abactor.
A Ravnos vampire that is going to choose a hunt action while Week of Nightmares is in play has the following options:
a) To use the hunt action provided by Week of Nightmares (as a (D) action on a younger Ravnos vampire)
b) Some other hunt action (Abactor, Loki's Gift, etc)

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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18 Oct 2012 02:33 #39394 by theragnarok

Is there an LSJ ruling on this? Because the card text seems pretty clear, I.E.

A vampire who must hunt may hunt by stealing a blood from a younger vampire as a D action instead of the usual hunt action

The 'may' here does not indicate an alternative hunt option, 'instead' being the operative word, the only hunt option available being hunting from younger vampires, Just like the Week of Nightmares option, which also reads 'may'.

I'm just reading the card text as it implies. If it was clarified with 'may hunt by stealing a blood... in addition to the usual hunt action' this would be clear, but the card clearly doesn't read that way for a reason?


Restricted Vitae doesn't prevent a normal cardless +1 stealth undirected hunt action; it does stop a vampire hunting unless it has a mandatory hunt action.
A vampire that has a mandatory hunt while Restricted Vitae is in play can choose the following options:
a) The normal cardless +1 stealth undirected hunt action
b) To use the hunt action provided by Restricted Vitae (as a (D) action on a younger vampire)
c) Some other hunt action (Abactor, Loki's Gift, etc)

Week of Nightmares forbids the normal cardless +1 stealth undirected hunt action; it gives ONE alternative to the cardless +1 stealth undirected hunt action on its card text. Usually a vampire only hunts via the cardless action but as I listed above, there are 'alternative hunt actions' that a Ravnos could use when Week of Nightmares is in play. The easiest example is Abactor.
A Ravnos vampire that is going to choose a hunt action while Week of Nightmares is in play has the following options:
a) To use the hunt action provided by Week of Nightmares (as a (D) action on a younger Ravnos vampire)
b) Some other hunt action (Abactor, Loki's Gift, etc)


Using this logic doesn't Restricted Vitae only give you one hunt option as well?

The wording 'may' is the same as Week of Nightmares. No one claims that with 0 blood on Ravnos vampires, you can hunt as normal, since there is no alternative; why would you claim the same for Restricted Vitae?

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18 Oct 2012 04:52 #39399 by Juggernaut1981
Week of Nightmares
Type: Master
Requires: Ravnos
Master.
Put this card in play with 10 nightmare counters. Ravnos get +1 bleed and +1 strength and do not hunt as normal. A Ravnos may steal a blood from another Ravnos as a +1 stealth hunt action. During each Methuselah's untap phase, he or she may move a nightmare counter from this card to a Ravnos. If this card has no counters, each Ravnos burns a blood for each nightmare counter or is burned, then burn this card and the counters. Only one Week of Nightmares may be played in a game.

The italicised text shows where the cardless hunt is forbidden by Week of Nightmares for Ravnos vampires. The underlined text shows where a different hunt option is provided by Week of Nightmares.

Restricted Vitae
Type: Event
Gehenna. Do not replace until a vampire successfully hunts.
Vampires cannot hunt unless forced to hunt. A vampire who must hunt may hunt by stealing a blood from a younger vampire as a (D) action instead of performing the usual hunt action.

Restricted Vitae is not forbidding the normal hunt only when a vampire can hunt. The underlined text shows where a different hunt option is provided by Restricted Vitae.


So the difference is that Week of Nightmares says that a Ravnos cannot hunt as normal. Restricted Vitae says that vampires cannot take any hunt actions unless they must take a hunt action. Hopefully this will finally clear this up for you.

:bruj::CEL::POT::PRE::tha: Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

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