file 'As it is played' timing

02 Nov 2012 08:16 #40258 by Kiddo
I have a question regarding, specifically DI, but also all the cards like that one, with 'as it is played' clause. I'll give you a specific example from the last night's game:

My pred was playing some politics (that would have been hurtful for both me and my prey) and I, Ahrimane player, decided to block. He went to +4 stealth (via 3 additional cards) against my current +3 intercept, at which point I sad that my current blocker can't catch his vamp and that I needed to think for a second because I had another wake in my hand and a vamp that might be able to catch him. After about a 10 second deliberation, I decided against another block attempt (this was perhaps altogether 30 seconds after he obtained his +4 stealth). At this point my prey plays DI on my pred's card for fourth stealth, making my block successful. No cards have been played between fourth stealth card and DI and no further actions attempted or declared and referendum has not yet been started.

So, my pred argued that DI has been played too late and not in direct response to a card played, I argued that the window is still there since no other card nor action has been played, declared or attempted.

Who was right?

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02 Nov 2012 08:18 #40259 by wesile
Replied by wesile on topic Re: 'As it is played' timing
IMHO, if no cards were played DI is still a valid option...

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02 Nov 2012 08:26 - 02 Nov 2012 08:32 #40260 by Azel
Replied by Azel on topic Re: 'As it is played' timing
When you "decided against another block attempt" how was this indicated. This could mean everything.

If it was "no blocks" declaration, then no, DI is too late.

(edit: wakes are a weird one, they back up the time window to allow cancelation effects. however the second after you played another reaction card that too would close the response window for DI. really, the DI player should've spoke up sooner, or people'll have to resort to asking "DIs?" after every card play)

If it was "I choose not to play a wake at this time..." jedi mind tricks, and you're still in the middle of a currently unsuccessful block, then there's room for argument.

for needless, excruciating, almost pointless argument. :)

Because you could in theory be just passing the impulse and waiting for responses around the table.
Last edit: 02 Nov 2012 08:32 by Azel.

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02 Nov 2012 08:34 #40261 by Kiddo
Replied by Kiddo on topic Re: 'As it is played' timing

When you "decided against another block attempt" how was this indicated. This could mean everything.

Actually, if I recall correctly, i just said: "just a moment [a 10-ish second gap]...nope, can't catch it".

I never declared my intent to perhaps play another wake, nor was this actually later a subject of our discussion. A time gap between playing a card and DIing it was...

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02 Nov 2012 08:36 - 02 Nov 2012 08:37 #40262 by KevinM
Replied by KevinM on topic Re: 'As it is played' timing
And THIS is why Direct Intervention is stupid*, because nearly every play in the game needs to be scrutinized to the point where the acting player redrawing after having played a card is playing the game wrong and should receive a penalty because she didn't ask for 'as played' cards before redrawing.


*Everyone gets to play a single Master card per turn, so asking for an 'as played' "Sudden"-type card once per player turn isn't nearly as disruptive.

Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
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Last edit: 02 Nov 2012 08:37 by KevinM.

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02 Nov 2012 08:41 - 02 Nov 2012 08:45 #40263 by Azel
Replied by Azel on topic Re: 'As it is played' timing
Never thee mind, it's all about the resolution of the card -- even before drawing up to replace.

As per RTR May 1st, 2004

Q: Can card-cycling effects (Barrens, Fragment, etc.) be used during the
"as played" window (so as to allow a player to draw into a Sudden or a
Direct Intervention to cancel the "as played" card)?
A: No. The "as played" window is only as the card is being played. It is
before that card is replaced, even.
The only cards that can be played "as"
another one is played are the ones the players have in their hands at the
time. (Not to be confused with the "as the action is announced" step, which
comes after the action card is played.) This is a reversal of previous rulings.

So it's Play Card > Ask "Mother May I?" > Replace Played Card > Continue Play.

If the acting player drew up and the crosstable didn't intervene, then nope, no DI allowed. The acting player was given tacit consent to draw up without interruption.

Edit: and yes, DI is stupid. Especially if you can call on and ding, DQ, opposing players during a tourney whenever they forget to ask for "as played" responses. Thankfully we're not nearly as unfriendly and competitive a game... but making such catch-all cards is asking for it.
Last edit: 02 Nov 2012 08:45 by Azel.

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