The Rising vs 419 Operation

a-e's solution is a correct one, but this way my prey only gets to burn 1 Operation IF he managed to get the Edge...

Isn't the always the case?

Hum... lets see If I understand the question...

Your prey bleeds someone... and of course gets the Edge...

Now... he can burn the edge to burn a 419...

But now he does not have the edge anymore... so can he gain any pool from the 419?

Is that that the question?

Now IMHO you can count the burning of the card and regaining the pool as a single window... so he should be able to regain the pool... or as a sequence... in that case he shouldn't get anything... but lets hear it from the judges...

I would think you don't get the lost pool but considering "burning the edge" as a cost and looking at the ruling for eternal of sirius at 4 pool, maybe the timing of cards make it that you still get your pool back?

If you burn it you gqin no pool if its your turn.

Simeone elses is ok.

Malachy wrote:

419 Operation
[EK:C]
Cardtype: Action
Clan: Osebo
+1 stealth action.
Put this card in play. During your untap phase, you may move 1 pool from your prey's pool to this card or move the pool on this card to your pool. Your prey can burn the Edge to move the counters on this card to his or her pool and burn this card.

Name: The Rising
[HttB:R]
Cardtype: Event
Gehenna. Do not replace until your prey is ousted.
Requires at least two other Gehenna cards in play. A Methuselah cannot gain pool during his or her own turn unless he or she has the Edge or at least one victory point. Any pool he or she would gain goes to the bank instead.

Question: if The Rising is in play and I have the Edge, what happens if I "burn the Edge to move the counters on this card to [my] pool"?

Answer: Off Kilter provides precedent.

Note that this is a similar "burn the edge to [gain some pool]" construction.

[LSJ 20100207]

LSJ, wrote:

> My question would be: If you DO have the edge, and burn it for the
> final sentence of Off Kilter, will The Rising neuter that last pool
> gain because you now no longer own the edge?

Yes (unless you also have a VP already).

So in a similar situation - burn the Edge to move the counters - The Rising would also neuter it.

Similar situation seems to = 419 op and Victorias special in this instance, the difference being 419 can be burned when its not your turn if you burn the edge, while victorias special is completely killed, since you burn the edge your turn to use it.

Similarly, if you bleed with kindred spirits during your turn with the rising out, and burn the edge for leverage, you gain no pool, simce you lose and do not regain the edge that action and its your turn. This changes if you oust since you gain a vp on that action, which i think ks stackw the poolgain into the same window of.
If you madness network kindred spirits bleed on your preys turn, and burn the edge for leverage, you eo gqin pool, its not your turn as per rising and ks.

Its obvious timing windows, and slightly ambiguous cost windows.

Obviously, gambit accepted also negates you having had a vp to the rising .

Also, Hrothulf rushing using his special and emptying an anathemad vamp gains no pool, if rising is out, as edgr was bruned as cost.