file De Sade vs Kindred Coercion

07 Oct 2013 11:17 #54880 by jozxyqk
I asked a similar question in the Danse Macabre preview thread, but I think it got lost in the shuffle.
Here's an exact situation:

De Sade calls a vote.
His prey's Sir Walter Nash, with zero blood, votes in favor.
A third vampire plays superior Kindred Coercion, attempting to change Sir Walter Nash's votes.

What happens? Does Nash successfully vote against? Does he abstain? Or is he immune to being targeted, so his votes are still in favor?

De Sade
Sabbat Archbishop of Paris: Vampires controlled by other Methuselahs must burn 1 blood to cast votes and ballots against referendums called by De Sade.

Kindred Coercion
Only usable during a referendum.
[dom] Force X vampires to abstain. This can cancel those vampires' votes and ballots. The affected vampires cannot be older than this reacting vampire.
[DOM] As above, but you may change the votes and ballots that the affected vampires cast to votes and ballots of your choice instead. (The affected vampires may choose to abstain if they have not already cast their votes and ballots.)

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07 Oct 2013 11:59 - 07 Oct 2013 12:27 #54885 by kombainas

His prey's Sir Walter Nash, with zero blood, votes in favor.


This should not possible due to not fulfilling condition to cast votes (pay a blood).

Edit: yeah, did not read through. The vote should not be changed to voting against, as the third player cannot pay the price for the modifier (Sir Walter Nash cannot burn blood to vote against).

!malk! :OBF: :DEM: :cel: :cap6: Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.
Last edit: 07 Oct 2013 12:27 by kombainas.

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07 Oct 2013 12:01 - 07 Oct 2013 12:05 #54886 by jozxyqk

His prey's Sir Walter Nash, with zero blood, votes in favor.


This should not possible due to not fulfilling condition to cast votes (pay a blood).


De Sade's card text says you only burn a blood to vote against his referendum.
Voting in favor while empty is most definitely legal.
I'm wondering what happens when someone tries to force an empty vampire to vote against.

(This could also happen in cases such as Astrid Thomas being in play, but I was trying to come up with a specific scenario.)

P.S. Your avatar picture is going to give me nightmares, kombainas.
Last edit: 07 Oct 2013 12:05 by jozxyqk.

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07 Oct 2013 12:28 #54888 by kombainas

P.S. Your avatar picture is going to give me nightmares, kombainas.


Last tournament, my !Malks were compared to a neighbor which would burn your door down if they even heard badmouthing them. I guess having nightmares is a milder effect!

!malk! :OBF: :DEM: :cel: :cap6: Sabbat. If this vampire's bleed is successful, he laughs manicly and untaps.

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07 Oct 2013 12:55 - 07 Oct 2013 12:56 #54889 by jozxyqk
Scenario 2, so we don't get caught up in the specifics of Kindred Coercion:

De Sade calls a vote.
His prey controls Astrid Thomas (with blood) and Cardano (with zero blood).
Cardano votes in favor.
Astrid burns a blood to vote against.

What happens to Cardano's votes?

Astrid Thomas
Camarilla primogen: When results are tallied during a referendum, any Tremere who are not abstaining cast votes and ballots with Astrid (unless Astrid abstains).

Last edit: 07 Oct 2013 12:56 by jozxyqk.

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07 Oct 2013 13:11 - 07 Oct 2013 13:11 #54891 by Shockwave
Surely Cardano now attempts to vote against (to fulfill Astrid's text), attempts to burn a blood, fails and his votes abstain.

:AUS: :FOR: :VAL: Here we go again....
Dave Knowles (Advanced)
Sabbat Bishop of Manchester
Last edit: 07 Oct 2013 13:11 by Shockwave.

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