Bima + Aura of Invencibility

Im still pissed Mata Hari cant Create Gargolye a Ravnos slave..........



Just to improve my mood(and basically nothing practical) lets draw a lime between "as" and "as though".

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Just to improve my mood(and basically nothing practical) lets draw a lime between "as" and "as though".

Well, if it makes you feel better:



(Sorry, I'm not very good at drawing - maybe someone else can do better?)

jamesatzephyr wrote:

At no point has this allowed other effects to treat you as something that you're not.

Exactly what I tried to explain, and apparently could not achieve. =)

Lemminkäinen wrote:

ReverendRevolver wrote:

Just to improve my mood(and basically nothing practical) lets draw a lime between "as" and "as though".

Well, if it makes you feel better:

(Sorry, I'm not very good at drawing - maybe someone else can do better?)

Damn, you beat me to it.
Great lime, btw.

jamesatzephyr wrote:

It's arguable that this ruling is overturned by the 7-7-7 ruling, as Charming Lobby's persistence is somewhat a lingering effect. So a CL played by this Bima would provide this Bima with a lingering effect that sees it as a vampire, but not other Bimas.

That feels a bit icky, but logically follows.

I was feeling slightly icky about actions that persist into the future. (In my head, "lingering effect" is mostly a combat thing. This is clearly not true, but it's how my brain has compartmentalized it.)

LSJ talks about Bima and Dive into Madness, which grants the vampire who plays it superior Dementation as a lingering effect. [LSJ 20080914] (Note the 2008 date is post 7-7-7.)

LSJ wrote:

> Let's say I have a Bima with a Dementation skill card on him. He
> plays Dive into Madness at lesser. What happens? If he 'gains'
> superior Dementation until the end of the turn, would that enable him
> to do anything that he couldn't do otherwise (considering that there
> is no text allowing him to play cards requiring sup DEM "as a vampire"
> and the rules only provide for vamps to play cards requiring
> disciplines)?
No. The effect would be useless to him.

> What would it mean for an ally to 'have' a discipline
> as opposed to being able to play cards requiring a discipline -- or is
> it a moot question regardless?
It could matter for effects similar to Sleep Unseen or Tenebrous Form. As far as
Dementation and the current card set, not so much.

The "No." looks like an answer to the question would that enable him to do anything that he couldn't do otherwise[?]", rather than any suggestion he can't play it. And as LSJ points out:

- an ally having superior Dementation doesn't let them play cards because of 1.5.4 ("The vampire's Disciplines determine which library cards he can play. If a library card requires a Discipline (noted by a Discipline symbol on the attribute bar of the library card), then only vampires who have that Discipline can play it."), and you have no rule-breaking card-text relating to superior Dementation for the Bima

- no other cards in the current card set appear to care, in a relevant way, about minions with Dementation. Of course, it's entirely possible that the V:EKN Design Team could change that in the future (though I have no reason to suspect anything!).


But it does appear to confirm that actions with lingering effects work this way under 7-7-7.