file Faceless Night vs x+1 block attempts

25 Jul 2014 14:25 - 26 Jul 2014 18:40 #64058 by Wedge
So minion B attempted to block, but failed after minion A played Faceless Night. Minion C is successful their attempt to block.

So minion B will be tapped by FN "before" combat?

This is (?) the same window as playing Obedience, so minion B will be tapped before minion C can play Obedience and cancel the action. Correct?

Does Farrie Wards or Champion trump Faceless Night for failed blockers?

6.2.3. Resolve the Action

If the action is successful (all block attempts were unsuccessful), then the cost of the action is paid and the effects of the successful action take place. If the action is blocked, then any card played to take the action is burned (it is moved to the ash heap) and the blocking minion is tapped and enters combat with the acting minion (see Combat, sec. 6.4). The effects of the action do not take place when the action is blocked. Note that the action's cost, if any, is only paid if the action succeeds; the cost is not paid if the action is blocked. The costs of action modifiers and reaction cards are always paid when the cards are played, regardless of the success of the action.

Faceless Night
[obf] +1 stealth.
[OBF] +1 stealth, and any minion who attempts to block this action and fails becomes tapped when the action is resolved (before resolving the action).
Last edit: 26 Jul 2014 18:40 by Wedge. Reason: color

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26 Jul 2014 14:08 #64110 by Wedge
What happens if minion C plays Promise of 1528 or Shattered Mirror?

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26 Jul 2014 17:57 - 26 Jul 2014 17:59 #64118 by ReverendRevolver
Shattered mirror and hard case both happen after sucessful block. Cant remeber promise's wording.

So, per FN, B attmpted to block and failed,,so hes tapped. Rules do not contradict.(resolves unsucessfully)
Last edit: 26 Jul 2014 17:59 by ReverendRevolver.

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26 Jul 2014 18:38 #64119 by Wedge
Based on the rulebook the resolution ending a action from a successful block cards in play are burned, the blocking minion taps and enters combat with the acting minion. Since it is one sentence the effects should be simultaneous. That would make Shattered Mirror :DEM: redundant, as you could not tap since the action has ended before you would. Thou now that I look at the timing it is a poor card choice against Faceless Night.

Promise of 1528 on the other hand can be of use to illustrate the point, if only against a (d) :action: buy a Cam. varpire targeting your:giov: who played:OBF: Faceless Night.

Shattered Mirror :reaction:

Only usable when this vampire successfully blocks an ally or younger vampire bleeding you.
:dem: Put this card on the acting minion and end the action (with no combat). The minion with this card gets -1 bleed. He or she may burn it as an action that costs 1 blood. A minion may have only one Shattered Mirror.
:DEM: As above, and this reacting vampire doesn't tap for successfully blocking the action.

Promise of 1528 :giov: :modifier: :reaction:

Usable by a tapped Giovanni. Only usable when this Giovanni is about to enter combat with a Camarilla vampire, or is the target of a Camarilla vampire's (D) action or is selected by the acting Methuselah in the terms of a referendum called by a Camarilla vampire. End the action.

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26 Jul 2014 22:44 #64126 by jamesatzephyr

So minion B attempted to block, but failed after minion A played Faceless Night. Minion C is successful their attempt to block.

So minion B will be tapped by FN "before" combat?

This is (?) the same window as playing Obedience, so minion B will be tapped before minion C can play Obedience and cancel the action. Correct?

Does Farrie Wards or Champion trump Faceless Night for failed blockers?


This is fairly academic.

When the acting Methuselah says "I'm blocked" or whatever, what they are actually saying is "I pass on playing effects." Then when everyone passes on playing more stealth/intercept effects, the action is blocked. [LSJ 20061026] Similarly, the blocking minion saying the action is successful just means they're not playing any further effects, so they assume the action is successful.

Why is the distinction important? In a normal stealth/intercept fight, methuselahs A (acting) and B )reacting) are playing stealth and intercept, following the normal sequencing rules. Each time either of them plays an effect, the impulse goes back to A. Methuselah C doesn't get a chance to play effects. So, for example, when A has +3 stealth and B has +2 intercept, B says "action successful", but C still has the opportunity to play superior Tourette's Voice, granting the hitherto unplayable +1 intercept needed.

So, during this timing window, prior to the action actually being successful or actually being blocked, play the effect you want to play.

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27 Jul 2014 00:53 #64128 by Wedge
I am just trying to get confirmation on what resolves an action. I believe success, fizzled, blocked, failed and ended all resolve an action. All that is left is cancel the action. Faceless Night will tap no minions if Tangle Atropos' Hand is played.

Tangle Atropos' Hand
Only usable when a minion is attempting to block.
[pot] Cancel the action and untap the acting minion. (The blocking minion is not tapped.)
[tem] As [pot] above, and take the action card, if any, back into your hand (discard afterward).
[TEM] As [tem] above, and this vampire gets +1 stealth on his or her next action this turn.


My point ultimately is that Faceless Night taps all failed blockers before the combat of a successful block, which I was not aware of. Unless the rulebook wrong as to what resolves an action.

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