Awake With Evening Freshness and Fast Reaction

Can a vampire use AWEF after another vampire has finished combat to use Fast Reaction? Or is there a way to pull the maneuver off?

Wake and wake-like cards allow to play reaction cards as if untapped.

Fast reaction is a reaction card.

I don't see anything preventing a vampire to play fast reaction with a wake.

dabbler wrote:

Can a vampire use AWEF after another vampire has finished combat to use Fast Reaction? Or is there a way to pull the maneuver off?

Yes, you can play Fast Reaction with a Wake With Evening's Freshness played after combat.

The reason why it's yes isn't entirely straightforward. I cite the relevant rules over here: www.vekn.net/forum/6-rules-questions/61715-when-when-not-where

Briefly:
- by default, due to 6.2 of the rulebook, action modifiers and reactions must be played prior to the resolution of an action. Obviously, quite a few action modifiers and reactions can be played later, such as Freak Drive, due to their explicit card text

- Wake-like effects don't have card text breaking the default rule, but they're allowed anyway, by a ruling cited in that thread: [LSJ 20091123]



(Honestly, I wish Wake-like cards were their own card type, or a reaction with a keyword. But they're not.)

jamesatzephyr wrote:

(Honestly, I wish Wake-like cards were their own card type, or a reaction with a keyword. But they're not.)

If we ever go back to prints, Vincent and I have quite a bunch of cardtext updates.
One of these updates is to have all wake-like cards and effects (and only them) read "even though tapped" instead of "as if untapped". It's not panacea (I'm not sure we want a "superfast-as-played-interruption" cardtype), but it'll make identification of these effects easier.

Pascal wrote:

One of these updates is to have all wake-like cards and effects (and only them) read "even though tapped" instead of "as if untapped". It's not panacea (I'm not sure we want a "superfast-as-played-interruption" cardtype),

We already have one of those - Reflex cards. They're not (currently) suitable for Wakes due to their rules though it's entirely conceivable that a definition could exist that allowed current Reflex effects (targetting the minion) and Wake-like effects. Then Reflex cards don't have the same "must be played before resolution" that reactions and action modifiers have...

Note that the Rulebook text for Reflex cards currently is:
And Wakes obviously don't have to be played in response to a specified kind of card. However, most of that rules text is actually restated on most Reflex cards, such as:

And the actual Reflex rule is adding almost nothing - unlike, say, the rulebook text on how action modifiers work adds a whole heap of info on top of Lost in Crowds saying: +1 stealth.

Pascal wrote:

but it'll make identification of these effects easier.

Uh, how? Looking for "can play reaction cards as if untapped" and looking for "can play reactions cards even though tapped" is the exact same thing. That doesn't change the fact that the cards break the rules all over the place on how reactions work without explicit card text (or rules text) allowing them to be played, even though other reactions require that text. Nor are they esoteric cards played once in 1995 by a bad Setite deck, but pretty central cards that form a central part of a lot of decks.

Even without turning them into Reflex cards (which, while possible, isn't necessary), a simple keyword like "Wake" on them, with an explanation in the rulebook, would be melt people's brains a lot, lot less.