file Presses outside of the press step

03 Feb 2015 02:02 - 03 Feb 2015 02:13 #69030 by self biased
there's plenty of precedent: you can't generate stealth unless there's a block attempt. you can't generate intercept unless there's stealth, &c. same rules apply there. I think. I usually defer to Jamesatzephyr for this sort of thing
Last edit: 03 Feb 2015 02:13 by self biased.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Feb 2015 03:21 - 04 Feb 2015 00:32 #69031 by Boris The Blade
The confusing wording is "get a press". What it really means is "get a press and play it". What "get a press" commonly means is said "get an optional press" on cards.

It seems that the rulebook does not use "press" and "maneuver" as verbs. It is a pity. "Once each combat, Terry can burn 1 blood to press" is certainly clearer, and that is the way all players I know announce it.
Last edit: 04 Feb 2015 00:32 by Boris The Blade.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Feb 2015 03:23 - 03 Feb 2015 03:24 #69032 by AaronC

there's plenty of precedent: you can't generate stealth unless there's a block attempt. you can't generate intercept unless there's stealth, &c. same rules apply there. I think. I usually defer to Jamesatzephyr for this sort of thing


It's a shame that more people can't read written text and come to an understanding of what it means without the help of someone else.

Pagan is correct: the rulebook, as it is written, does not say that you can't play (or get, or whatever) a press outside the press step. The rulebook makes the jump from "using presses" to "playing presses" without taking into account how to handle presses gotten/played outside the press step. I mean, aren't optional presses "played"? Aren't the presses from Trap "played"? It implies instead of explicitly states that you cannot play "immediate" presses outside the press step, even though of course there is no class of game effects categorized as "immediate". As Pagan mentioned, this is an intuitive understanding.

Just because you know something to be true intuitively, or because someone you view as an authority tells you something, doesn't mean that there is any written text backing it up. Seriously.

Everyone knows how presses are meant to be played, I guess, and this example with Dan is corner-case. However, the rulebook could always be written better, which seems to be Pagan's point.

6.4.4. Press

At the end of a round of combat (if both combatants are still ready), the combatants will either go their separate ways (the default) or one of them will give chase. Presses can be used to continue combat (start another round of combat) or to end combat (cancel an opponent's press), similar to the way maneuvers are used to determine range. The two combatants can continue playing presses (to keep offsetting the effects of their opponent's last press) for as long as they wish. A minion cannot play two presses in a row (which would effectively cancel each other). If there is an uncanceled press to continue, then another round of combat begins.

Last edit: 03 Feb 2015 03:24 by AaronC. Reason: gain -> get

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
03 Feb 2015 08:03 #69034 by jamesatzephyr

Terry contradicts the rules by allowing him to gain a press by burning a blood with the only restriction that he has to be in combat. The rulebook says when card text would allow something different than the rules, the card text wins.


It doesn't actually contradict the rules, though. It says he can do it once each combat, so even if the combat goes on for seventeen rounds, he can only do it once. But you follow the rest of the game on presses, which includes when you play/use/declare them. Both restrictions apply - once each combat, and the normal timing.

Similarly, Alexis Sorokin can only declare his strike during Choose Strike:
Alexis Sorokin... Once each combat, Alexis may dodge as a strike.

Lernean can only gain his additional strike during the normal point for that, after strikes are resolved:
Lernean... Once each round, Lernean may burn 1 blood to get an additional strike.

Don Cruez can only gain a maneuver during Choose Range:
Once each combat, Don Cruez may burn 1 blood to get one maneuver.


To contradict the rules, you need to do more than just state a general timing - you actually need to say something that's incompatible with the rules, where the two cannot be true together. For example:
Second Tradition... Also usable by a tapped prince or justicar, even if intercept is not yet needed, to burn a blood to untap and attempt to block with +2 intercept.

Usable by a tapped prince - check, that contradicts. Ordinarily, reactions are playable only by untapped minions. Gain intercept even though it's not yet needed - check, that contradicts. Ordinarily, transient intercept can only be gained during a stealth-intercept fight when you need the intercept.
The following user(s) said Thank You: self biased

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
Moderators: AnkhaKraus
Time to create page: 0.122 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum