Toreador Grand Ball/Mask of 1000 Faces
30 Sep 2015 10:23 #73449
by Brum
Replied by Brum on topic Re: Toreador Grand Ball/Mask of 1000 Faces
And does the second vampire's action is unblockable?
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30 Sep 2015 15:24 #73454
by Kushiel
Replied by Kushiel on topic Re: Toreador Grand Ball/Mask of 1000 Faces
Thanks, Pascal. Sorry this turned out to be such a headache - certainly not what I was expecting when I first asked the question.
Presumably this also applies to Nakhthorheb and Mask? I ask because your reversal specifies "non-bleed actions," but Nakh's text does not.
Presumably this also applies to Nakhthorheb and Mask? I ask because your reversal specifies "non-bleed actions," but Nakh's text does not.
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30 Sep 2015 15:26 #73455
by Kushiel
Technically, no. But that doesn't matter - the whole point of doing this is to ask all other players to decline blocks while the TGB'd vampire is acting, and then play Mask. The decision not to block is binding (unless bounce is played), and that still applies after you play Mask.
Replied by Kushiel on topic Re: Toreador Grand Ball/Mask of 1000 Faces
And does the second vampire's action is unblockable?
Technically, no. But that doesn't matter - the whole point of doing this is to ask all other players to decline blocks while the TGB'd vampire is acting, and then play Mask. The decision not to block is binding (unless bounce is played), and that still applies after you play Mask.
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30 Sep 2015 15:30 #73456
by Pascal Bertrand
Replied by Pascal Bertrand on topic Re: Toreador Grand Ball/Mask of 1000 Faces
No. But if you're smart enough, you play the Mask after the other players declined declaring block attempts.And does the second vampire's action is unblockable?
Correct. And to Aisling.Presumably this also applies to Nakhthorheb and Mask?
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25 Nov 2015 20:31 - 25 Nov 2015 20:33 #74539
by AaronC
Replied by AaronC on topic Re: Toreador Grand Ball/Mask of 1000 Faces
The more I think about it, the more I think that action modifiers should not carry on to the Masked vampire. That would eliminate the need for the current two-dozen-or-so current rulings.
The text of Mo1KF assumes that action modifiers modify an action, when in fact most modify the acting vampire during the action. The term "action modifier" is imprecise: stealth and bleed are characteristics of a vampire, not an action. Lost in Crowds gives the acting vampire +1/+2 stealth; it doesn't give Govern the Unaligned +1/+2 stealth. Felicia Mostrom doesn't block Govern the Unaligned; she blocks Gilbert Duane (hopefully
)
Based on this logic, there is no reason for action modifiers or effects to "carry over" from one minion to the next except a misinterpretation of the term "action modifier". Reactions aren't considered to modify the action, so I don't see why action modifiers would, either, other than the name. Action modifiers are simply cards playable by an acting vampire during an action, just as reaction cards are card playable by a reacting vampire during an action.
By removing this sentence: "Not usable if any action modifiers or other effects have been used that could not have been used if this vampire were the acting vampire.", and understanding that action modifiers stay with the minion who played them, Mo1KF becomes much, much easier to manage.
The text of Mo1KF assumes that action modifiers modify an action, when in fact most modify the acting vampire during the action. The term "action modifier" is imprecise: stealth and bleed are characteristics of a vampire, not an action. Lost in Crowds gives the acting vampire +1/+2 stealth; it doesn't give Govern the Unaligned +1/+2 stealth. Felicia Mostrom doesn't block Govern the Unaligned; she blocks Gilbert Duane (hopefully

Based on this logic, there is no reason for action modifiers or effects to "carry over" from one minion to the next except a misinterpretation of the term "action modifier". Reactions aren't considered to modify the action, so I don't see why action modifiers would, either, other than the name. Action modifiers are simply cards playable by an acting vampire during an action, just as reaction cards are card playable by a reacting vampire during an action.
By removing this sentence: "Not usable if any action modifiers or other effects have been used that could not have been used if this vampire were the acting vampire.", and understanding that action modifiers stay with the minion who played them, Mo1KF becomes much, much easier to manage.
Last edit: 25 Nov 2015 20:33 by AaronC.
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26 Nov 2015 11:27 #74541
by Borrelstein
Replied by Borrelstein on topic Re: Toreador Grand Ball/Mask of 1000 Faces
The phrase 'Not usable if any action modifiers or other effects have been used that could not have been used if this vampire were the acting vampire' implies that you would need to test whether the 2 vampires could have been exchanged in the action without consequence.
If an effect (such as inherent stealth or TGB) causes a difference in options for the blocker, then Masking can not be played.
I believe that this is in accordance with the intended mechanics of the card.
If an effect (such as inherent stealth or TGB) causes a difference in options for the blocker, then Masking can not be played.
I believe that this is in accordance with the intended mechanics of the card.
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